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 Post subject: cories and altums
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 5:41 am 
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HI
When I saw Pat's cories (C5s ,I think) I thought,in rapid succession: wow, those are nice, they will be expensive, they will not like the temperature and may not be able to compete with the altums and could "fade away". In any case did purchase some cory Weinzmani which, according to the most recent info them are about as Ok at higher temp as more or less any cory.
For their quarantine, I put the 10 of them in a 70 with twelve H 511 tetras that were just finishing off their quarantine in a 70 gal. The 511s were available there because ,though I mean to put them in with the altums, I felt that they would compete too well with my tank of smaller /runted altums and ,on the other hand, in the other grow out tank,my bigger/best altums would attack them and maybe eat them..I have had that happen in the past.
It does not look good, at my end, for introducing corys to the altums tanks. THe cories cannot compete at all without dedicated target feeding..just under the small tetras without the altums. In the other tanks, when I feed these altums which are about 8 months old,I feed about as much as they will eat in 15 seconds and then go back and drop a bit more in another time or two. Nothing is not eaten, nothing drops to the base. They compete for food extremely well.
I basically knew this might well happen but I just redid the old experiment

Regards Al


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 Post subject: Re: cories and altums
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 3:26 pm 
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Perhaps feed them algae tablets, similar to those fed to Plecos. That might work.


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 Post subject: Re: cories and altums
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 9:52 pm 
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Hi Al, Eric...

I have 6 young, but already adult sized C. sterbai with about 16 adult altums in a 220G and the sterbai's have actually spawned in the tank a number of times, but the eggs are short lived, as expected. I did lose about 3 or 4 of the sterbai when they were still around 1/2 inch, at least one went right up the intake and ended up in my magnum 350 (I eventually put the intake screen back on).

My larger altum show very little interest in the smaller pellets, so I feed the NLS Ultra Red (for the sterbai) and the Hikari Cichlid Gold, at the same time. The NLS Ultra Red sinks, the Hikari Cichclid Gold floats... and everybody's happy.

I also feed frozen brine shrimp, frozen glassworms, freeze dried bloodworms, live blackworms and the sterbai ain't complainin'... They get to it.

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 Post subject: Re: cories and altums
PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 12:40 pm 
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Most of the sinking pellet,tablet or granulated prepared foods designed to sink to the bottom should assure adequate food for the Corydoras.
Frozen bloodworms and other fresh frozen foods being fed to the Angels will also feed the Corys.
My guess is that a good majority of Altum owners also keep some Corydoras species with them just as Ed described above.

It is far from essential that we keep any catfish with Altums.
However most of us like keeping some kind or another catfishes.
I highly recommend warm water plecos such as Hypancistrus and Peckoltia species. They are fairly small for plecos and are primarily carnivorous in nature. They like all the sinking carnivore/omnivore foods and as a general rule, one of these plecos is about the same as having 3 or 4 standard sized Corydoras in terms of how much food they eat.

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 Post subject: Re: cories and altums
PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 9:18 am 
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Second Larry with the plecos... cheap and functional, any bristlenose... or the L-128 or L-200, among many other Orinoco plecos (most are on the expensive side) would compliment an altum biotope tank.

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God listens. He may not always give you everything you want, when you want it; but he always gives you what you really need, when you need it most!
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 Post subject: Re: cories and altums
PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 11:26 am 
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HI
THis older thread sort of started when I remarked about Pat's nice numbered cories and commented that they might have trouble with the temperature and the competition. THese cories, and one likes to get 10 or so , were available from discus origins for $25.00 a piece with $100.00 freight added on,. So, at $350 or so, one would have to call it "keeping cories" not "cories under altums". I too kept sterbai under altums. Had about a 40% death rate, then the rest were around for maybe 4 years. I have a friend who is a cory keeper...he has quite a few that he had when his kids were little and now the kids have graduated from highschool and the cories are still around.
I do like the idea of the small plecos. I do have a colony of leopard frogs that now reside in my 220 discus tank having refused to breed when they were on there own.
Al


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 Post subject: Re: cories and altums
PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 4:28 pm 
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In my particular case, I chose C. sterbai because of their reputation of being good at standing higher temperatures and the fact that I tend to increase T's when I notice the fish lacking appetite. Still, at 88F and above, even the tougher cory species need to be kept under a watchful eye. More than the food competition thing, I blame higher temps for any losses. And at least two that at some point found interest in a little tunnel that led straight to an impeller of a canister filter (as I found the decomposing bodies inside the filter).

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God listens. He may not always give you everything you want, when you want it; but he always gives you what you really need, when you need it most!
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 Post subject: Re: cories and altums
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 4:00 pm 
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Hi mirador,
"I do like the idea of the small plecos. I do have a colony of leopard frogs that now reside in my 220 discus tank having refused to breed when they were on there own."
Between 2007 and 2012 I raised and sold almost 1000 Peckoltia compta aka Leopard Frog Plecos.
In fact, I was even able to successfully breed my F1's, producing a couple hundred young before I sold them all. before having to sell all my fish due to my poorer health reasons. I know what I did and it did not seem like I was doing anything special compared to the Hypancistrus L260/Queen Arabesque or Hypancistrus L333. The former are much harder to breed than the latter.
At first, I used mainly RO water but after awhile I found my plecos bred just as well in my tapwater.
I did do 70% water changes about every 3 or 4 days and kept them at 84*F.
I also fed them live black worms. I would try to keep some in a custard dish so not all of them escaped into the substrate. The rest of their diet consisted of frozen blood worms and earthworm sticks.

I've found that it's common for fish breeders to each have difficult to breed fish be easily bred while sometimes an "easier" species proves difficult. It all evens out in the end.

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 Post subject: Re: cories and altums
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 9:24 am 
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Hi guys,

I just wanted to report that the cories I have with my altums are alive and well. There are only four of them and might get more if I move the altums to a larger tank if I can find them.

Pat

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 Post subject: Re: cories and altums
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 6:01 am 
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HI All
Just a quick reply regarding cories, plecos and raising fish together and heavy feeding.
1. I have some c wietzmani that are .75 inches long. They are the ones that struggled just under some 511 tetras. They have to get to 2 inches. So, I put them alone in a handy 55 gal where they immediately began to do well. I would not see them doing ok under anything...and I think it is too hot for the weitzmani. I have a group ( only 6) of rummy nosed tetras in with my smaller altums in a 125 with a sump .I maybe have seen the altums let them eat a couple of times in months..they just scrounge and are not starving but are not biggies either. Since I am over feeding the altums( more in number of feedings a day than quantity of food)and keeping them ahead of the grim reaper with water changes it gets more dangerous yet again to add to the overfeeding by adding more for the tetras or, especially ,target feeding bottom dwellers...so no bottom dweller till all are older.
2.Re the leopard frogs. I am sure I will try again one of these days. My experience breeding zebra plecos is once you stumble onto exactly what they want to get breeding,you can do everything wrong and they will still continue to breed until "rest time." I had them for 6 years and had discovered that they would only start breeding if kept as a colony of 6 wild adults in a sort of planted 75 gallon,with clay caves, a deepish gravel bed and eating just about anything including my home made discus beefheart.The babies were murder to raise and ,in the end ,had to be left with the adults,and,especially,with older siblings that took them out to the targeted food spots. There I was ,an older 75 gallon tank,70 plecos, targeted feeding with ungelled beefheart food (can't take the gell)and afraid to move them as the babies move very poorly until over an inch long. I did move out 12 to a friend .Over night,the tank went south,and there was a mass die off of all fish ( there were also contractors working in that area that day). So,I am real careful about overfeeding.


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 Post subject: Re: cories and altums
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 9:59 am 
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I used to have a group of wild adult Corydoras weitzmanni which I kept with Dicrossus filamentosus.
They did fine in warm water at 84*F/~28*C.

My original breeding group of Peckoltia compta consisted of 2 males and 3 females of wild caught specimens.
I kept them in a 20 gal long/75 liters(12 X 12 X 30 inches/30 X 30 X 75 cm).
I used a thin layer of sand. Barely enough to cover the bottom glass.
This original group produced about 2/3 of all the fry I raised.
I found the fry to be hardy and fast growers. I had F1's successfully breed as early as 18 months although most began around 24 months old. The F1's bred in bare bottom tanks.

I had some serious losses among H. zebra which were kept with some Discus. After that, I gave up using beef heart. Not really an easy thing for me to trust at first because I have been making my own frozen beef heart fish food since 1968 and had raised 1000's of discus on primarily that beef heart.
I used to feed a lot of beef heart to my discus. I found that earthworm sticks were an excellent staple food for Discus and the more carnivorous species of plecos. It is a good food for all fish which are willing to or mainly feed from the bottom.
Of course, I also provided my fish with abundant feedings of frozen blood worms and live black worms, too.
I used to own a fish shop and breed tropical fish commercially.

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Larry Waybright
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 Post subject: Re: cories and altums
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 12:49 pm 
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Thanks for that info.I may well try the weitzmanni with the altums as they get bigger.
BTW I had had loses with growing zebra plecos up to about an inch or so..then they were OK. I found/read from twotank amin that they cannot deal with the gell in the beefheart or in European shrimp mix.When I made gell free versions of these foods for the zebra tank losses disappeared...until the big collapse which was my fault.Mu only defense agaqinst the thought of neglecting the gravel washing on my part was the fact that the contrators had more or less destroyed the inside of our house and did distract me a lot.
Thanks Al


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