It is currently Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:33 pm
 

 

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 58 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: re: Cheirodon axelrodi
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 12:32 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2006 3:04 am
Posts: 222
Location: Torquay, uk
Hey Dave,

Body builders use it to get steroids straight into the blood without leaving injection holes, and it causes major problems with contamination if the steroids aren't sterile..................................

Cheers G


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: Cheirodon axelrodi
PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 7:09 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2004 10:39 pm
Posts: 2955
Location: Toronto Canada
Hi Ed !
I've found several references to people having cardinals live for ten years.
D


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 5:19 am 
Offline
Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2005 3:21 am
Posts: 4243
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
rag wrote:
Hi Ed !
I've found several references to people having cardinals live for ten years.
D


Hard to believe but I've too come across these reports on the web.

I remember my grandmother had a tank with nothing else but cardinals (maybe some cories I think) in the late 60's into the 70's. She died in 74' and I don't know what happened after that.

I've mostly kept them with species that grow large enough to eat them later on, though not with that purpose, just to make the biotype right.

Just before I came up to the States I freed several hundreds into a pond at my brother-in-law's farm in Venezuela. Those were in the 3-4 year old range. The last thing I knew he was selling them by the box to OTF retailers in Maracaibo. The had done well.

Ed

_________________
God listens. He may not always give you everything you want, when you want it; but he always gives you what you really need, when you need it most!
E.R.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: Cheirodon axelrodi
PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 9:43 am 
Offline
Founder
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2003 2:05 pm
Posts: 2064
Location: Manchester UK
I've keep cardinals for about four years or so, then sold them.
They used to get a little finely shredded ox-heart, because they were in with chocolate gouramis that I found used to thrive on it.
They got quite a size.

But as to the wild, I've read that they tend to get caught around a fairly constant maximum size, so with all that predation they are probably 'annuals' .

Perhaps Ed will know if bigger ones have been caught.
Alec


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: Cheirodon axelrodi
PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 1:56 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2004 10:39 pm
Posts: 2955
Location: Toronto Canada
I had one single specimen left and it grew to larger than I have ever seen once it's schooling behaviour was thwarted.
It occupied the middle of the tank and was fearless, without the signals from the group.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: Cheirodon axelrodi
PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 1:58 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2004 10:39 pm
Posts: 2955
Location: Toronto Canada
I had one single specimen left and it grew to larger than I have ever seen, I believe it happened to get fearless and big because it's schooling behaviour and group fear reaction was thwarted.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: Cheirodon axelrodi
PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 3:41 am 
Offline
Scientific Research Administator
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 18, 2006 10:12 am
Posts: 502
Location: Somerset West, South Africa
Hi Ed, and Gran,

It seems, Ed, that you and I have followed similar paths in our fishkeeping. I have kept and bred angels from school boy days in 1968 and discus since 1988. Altums are a recent addition in that I have been keeping them for about 3 years. Obviously, because all these fish come from the same areas of origin in nature they carry many common parasites. However the term parasites includes a very large group of organisms as a result of which it is impossible to treat them all with one medication. Here my training as a biochemist (I am a professor of biochemistry at Stellenbosch University in South Africa) has been a tremendous help in my having to understand the diseases and the medications that are used to treat these parasites. I fully agree with rag about all the kooks in discuskeeping, specialists that drop out of the woodwork from nowhere without any training from anywhere....

I fully agree with your experiences, Ed, about metranidozole for the treatment of flagellates and have used it very successfully. No resistance is built up and the fishes show no side-effects from the treatment.

Gran, I am also very interested in what you have to say about flubendazole. Flubendazole kills all helminths through blocking very specifically their uptake of glucose and as Gran has indicated it can only do this to these worms, but not to any fish or other vertebrates, and should therefore not influence the fish at all. The degree of purity is however critical. Here is South Africa, I could only access 1.66% flubendazole and in order to get up to the recommended dosage, I obviously had to use a considerable amount of the powder formulation. I used this three times and every time I had fishes losing swimbladder control. They either became belly sliders or had overinflated swimbladders which made them into headstanders. Most of those did not recover and I gave up on the treatment. I then had discussions with other serious German discuskeepers and they also had similar experiences with the 5% flubendazole sold in Germany. Clearly there must be some or other additional substance or impurity which is causing this problem. For this reason, Gran, if you are producing higher grade flubendazole, that does not produce these side-effects, I would be very happy to obtain some from you. Could I perhaps ask you to contact me off of this forum so that I can perhaps obtain some from you.

What I would additionally like to add is what I read in the German version of Dieter Untergasser's book on discushealth (it has been poorly translated into English and a lot of the good aspects have been lost as a result). He states that gill flukes are killed with 10-12 days and that nematodes are killed off after 10-20 days. Nematodes would include tapeworms and capillaria. Tapeworms are normally treated with praziquantal (active ingredient of Droncit or Drontal), but praziquantal does not kill off Capillaria, which are very serious parasites. My first altums that I bought about ten years ago all died and microscopic examination of their gut revealed masses of capillaria. Untergasser advises three treatments at weekly intervals with flubendazole in order to cover the period that is required to kill all of these parasites. I am personally convinced that if one could get the impurity problem sorted out as you suggest, Gran, that it would be ideal for treating our South American fish with great success.

I would be very interested in your comments.

Kind regards,

Dirk

_________________
Somerset West, South Africa


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: Cheirodon axelrodi
PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 8:48 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2004 10:39 pm
Posts: 2955
Location: Toronto Canada
Dirk, thanks, that was just what I was after, some more info on flubenol, as I had found the 5% mentioned only, or a small portion of flubenol in patent meds, where theoretically (generally) one might easily overdose on the other meds if upping the concentrtion of flubenol.
As a side issue, I notice that some sellers route their product as originating through the Balkans or other states.
One might also investigate State Regulations. In Canada we can recieve any medication through the mail as lonmg as we make a facsimile order form stating the intended use ( which must be in line with standard medical recomendations ) for a specific illness treatment.
The government is restrained from supplying the order form , but you can download your own facsimile from them !
Kooks in that department too, eh , Dirk ?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: Cheirodon axelrodi
PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 8:58 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2004 10:39 pm
Posts: 2955
Location: Toronto Canada
can't edit posts sometimes
just wanted to add: many of us are familiar with your aquarium and fine fish from the TAF2 threads.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: Cheirodon axelrodi
PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 8:18 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2004 5:37 pm
Posts: 580
Location: San Antonio, TX
Flubendazole seems to be effective, from what I hear, but it is rather hard to find in the U.S.

Have anyone tried with Levamisole? This is another dewormer that, apparently, is safe and more available to us here. Although there is not a lot of clear information about how effective it is.

Here are couple of links that mention treatments for nematodes.

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/pdffiles/FA/FA09100.pdf

http://zfin.org/zf_info/monitor/vol3.4/vol3.4.pdf

Eduardo


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: Cheirodon axelrodi
PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 2:29 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2004 10:39 pm
Posts: 2955
Location: Toronto Canada
James has talked about Levamisole I'm sure, and discus people have used it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: Cheirodon axelrodi
PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 5:53 am 
Offline
Scientific Research Administator
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 18, 2006 10:12 am
Posts: 502
Location: Somerset West, South Africa
Hi Eduardo,

In the second article to which you have posted the link, the authors mention that levamisole is not an effective treatment against worms but that mebendazole is. Mebendazole is of course closely related to flubendazole, as it works in the same way.

As far as I can establish, levamisole is effective against roundworms and capillaria but it is usually recommended as a food additive. Flubendazole is added to the water. If you have a fish that is already not eating well or perhaps not eating at all, levamisole as added to the food will not work and flubendazole appears to be a better option.

Gill flukes are killed with flubendazole but not by feeding levamisole as far as I can ascertain.

So, I conclude that flubendazole is actually a better remedy as it will kill gill flukes, nematodes (round worms and tape worms) and capilarians. In addition, I do not know of side-effects with levamisole. Does anyone know of any?

Kind regards,

Dirk

_________________
Somerset West, South Africa


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: Cheirodon axelrodi
PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 7:47 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2004 5:37 pm
Posts: 580
Location: San Antonio, TX
In addition to the previous 2 links, here are few more references concerning the use of Levamisole on FW aquaria. These readings give an idea about the concentration to be used and general water parameters in which the treatments were given.

A brief mention of Levamisole in these links, move the page down a little.

http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/h ... hmed.shtml

http://members.optushome.com.au/chelmon/Worms.htm

In this The Angelfish Forum (TAS) newsletter is someone who has used Levamisole HCl with angelfish afflicted with Capillaria, see p.4.

http://waynesworldangelfish.com/newslet ... eb2006.pdf

This is a good writing from Charles H. Harrison, Ph D.

http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/CamellanusTreatment.pdf

There is an article on TFH Magazine of May 2006, Vol. LIV, Num. 9, #602 under the section 'Livebearers Unlimited' on page-52 using Levamisole HCl for Camallanus on livebearers.

Regards!
Eduardo


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: Cheirodon axelrodi
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:09 pm 
Offline
Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2005 3:21 am
Posts: 4243
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Hi Dirk. I use metro basically for flagellates as you say, but I use it in combination with Drontal Plus (or Canidon - a Greek manufactured generic form of Bayer's original Drontal Plus formula). In this way, you'll find that by combining in feed Flagyl and Drontal Plus, you'll have all angles covered. I not only agree that Capillaria sp is a main culprit when it comes to cichlids but I might add that if it wasn't for this nematode I probably wouldn't have thought about the use of Drontal Plus in the first place. I really never bother to use prazi alone.
Ed

_________________
God listens. He may not always give you everything you want, when you want it; but he always gives you what you really need, when you need it most!
E.R.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: Cheirodon axelrodi
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2009 6:41 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 3:28 pm
Posts: 229
Location: Tulsa Oklahoma
What about the Hyphessobrycon Innesi - the Neon Tetra? I assume you would expect to find these amongst the various species of Pterophyllum? Do you find Cardinals with Neons in the wild? Are Neons in the Orinoco?

It seems to me the species relationship between Innesi and Axlerodi might someway parallel our beloved Scalares and Altums and the such...any comments?


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 58 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group

 

 
 

Species Identification Guide


Domestic Angelfish Genetics


Angelfish Chronicles


Members Galleries


 
Contact: Forum Administration
E-mail: info@finarama.com
Finarama.com
Dedicated to further understanding the Genus Pterophyllum