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 Post subject: re: Cheirodon axelrodi
PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 11:47 pm 
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The false neon (P. simulans) is found in the Atabapo. The Cardinal Tetra is the most common among the neon group found in the Orinoco Basin.

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 Post subject: re: Cheirodon axelrodi
PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 11:51 pm 
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Cardinals are also found all the way down the Rio Negro as far as I understand.

Ed

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 Post subject: re: Cheirodon axelrodi
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 3:49 pm 
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Thank you for replying Ed.

I find it interesting that I can easily find the "false" neon in just about every fish store in town but I have yet to see a cardinal. The old Innes book illustration shows the false neon and is absent of the cardinal or even mention of the species. Seems like it would be the other way around if the white bellied suckers are only found in the Atabapo.

I must have the bug nowadays or something because now I am hankering to set up two tanks...one for cardinals and one for wild angels. Next thing you know I'll probably be talking about a third tank Apistos or Mesonautas and perhaps even some bank robbing or something. hahaha

BTW I googled Atabapo municipality...population around 10K...that place must be neat because there is not a gazillion people around.


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 Post subject: re: Cheirodon axelrodi
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 8:10 pm 
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OK I just realized P Simulans is different than Axelrodi or Innesi...I was thinking of that little timid white bellied Innesi ^...they are everywhere...let's call them Wal Mart neons!

Ed you are expanding my mind sir thanks! hahaha


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 Post subject: re: Cheirodon axelrodi
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 9:41 pm 
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Note to ADMIN...in this particular category (Dither Fish) the settings are such that we cannot edit our posts. Boy I sure do like the option of being able to edit my posts because I have a propensity to get things all out of whack for some reason.


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 Post subject: re: Cheirodon axelrodi
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 10:56 pm 
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I understand it is bad etiquette to make multiple postings but please forgive me folks.

Would I be correct in saying -

1. The "false" neon (P. Simulans) is found only in the Atabapo
2. The only species of Pterophyllum that feeds on P Simulans is Altum

???


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 Post subject: re: Cheirodon axelrodi
PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 10:25 am 
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Walmart Neons are usually P. innesi, but you can get lucky and get cardinals now and then being sold as neons.
P. simulans (Green Neon) is a more recently classified form with a slightly more green than blue color pattern and a not so intense red than P. innesi. The silver abdominal of simulans and innesi clearly distinguish it from axelrodi. Depending on the condition of the specimens, innesi and simulans are not always easy to tell apart. P. simulans is not only found in the Atabapo but in other places in the Rio Negro. This means it is probably also part of the diet of other Pterophyllum species. P. innesi I think has not been found in Venezuela but we used to think of P. simulans as P. innesi not too far back, so there is contrasting literature on the matter. P. axelrodi has a fairly wide distribution throughout the middle and upper Orinoco and into the Negro system in Brazil.
P. altum also has a distribution considerably larger than the Atabapo area within the Orinoco Basin and it overflows into the Negro apparently affecting P. scalare, producing interesting variations.

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 Post subject: re: Cheirodon axelrodi
PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 1:04 pm 
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I can't find simulans for sale anywhere on the net. And from what I read they are not as vigorous as axelrodi or innesi plus they are apparently much more skittish. Interesting stuff. I love the cardinals and they think they are the best looking of the neons but if I convert my 25 to a neon tank I really like the idea of the diminutive simulans from what I understand stays at about 1" as opposed to the cardinal which can get much bigger than that.

Man if you could get any of these neons spawning on a regular basis that would be a cool source of food. I just can't deal with guppies...I can handle African wood but I have to have SA fish...

I am going to have an Amazon room without the heat and humidity... :)


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 Post subject: re: Cheirodon axelrodi
PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 10:50 pm 
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Correction to above post...I found some simulans...Bev has them.


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 Post subject: re: Cheirodon axelrodi
PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 2:41 pm 
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And she's one good supplier to buy from!
Ed

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 Post subject: re: Cheirodon axelrodi
PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 5:29 pm 
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And Ed how come you didn't tell me guppy's were SA fish??? :lol:

That is crazy...where geographically speaking do altum and guppy meet in the wild???


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 Post subject: re: Cheirodon axelrodi
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 10:49 am 
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Did you ask? The Guppy (P. reticulata) are originally from the Orinoco Delta and are also found on nearby Trinidad & Tobago which is very close to the Venezeulan Coast.... Endlers Guppy (another species of Poecilia - wingei) are from Sucre state on the Paria Peninsula which is also very close to the Orinoco Delta in Venezuela. Endlers seem to be one or two isolated populations. Of course guppies are now found in many other places in the tropics and subtropics.
Ed

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God listens. He may not always give you everything you want, when you want it; but he always gives you what you really need, when you need it most!
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 Post subject: re: Cheirodon axelrodi
PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 6:57 am 
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P.simulans, Green Neons, have been my favorite of the "Neons" since I first shipped some in in 1970.
I have had a new group of 18 sice last summer. They were living with my Heckel Discus before the Heckels became Ed's Heckels this spring.

I have found them to do better in warm water than even Cardinals. P. innesi don't like water much over 78*F. Green Neons live longer for me than the other despite the fact that they are the smallest spp.

Jan,

I treat my Plecos/Loricaridae and wild Discus in the same fashion as Ed uses. That is, with the below drugs.
Metronidazole
Praziquantal
Flubendazole 10%( strongest form I can get).
Malachite Green solution as needed for Ich, Velvet,Costia and etc.

The fish treated with these medications breed easier than untreated fish. Reducing/eliminating the parasite load allows for more energy to be devoted to egg production.
I am raising L134, L260, L333 and Sturisoma aureum.

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