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 Post subject: Cardinals and Altums?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 10:07 am 
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Are cardinal tetras a good choice to keep with altums or will they eventually be an expensive meal? :shock:


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 10:27 am 
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Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
Hi Jung,

I do keep some cardinals with rather large Altum (around 25 cm tip to tip) and they did not snack on them. They could swallow one whole if they want to, but at the moment it stayed with some attacks. I think the Altum are fed enough, so they are not that hungry. I also have enough spots for the cardinals to swim unnoticed. But fact remains they are attacked now and then. It is rather a spectacular sight if you are not a cardinal :wink: . The altum tilts and jumps into the group of cardinals. But I can not give you full garantee the cardinals will not be eaten.


Cheers,
Carla


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 11:34 am 
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Sometimes I am suprised at what is not eaten. I dumped a bunch of cull angel fry in with my 2 year altums. Some were eaten but many were just left alone. Those grew out pretty well some not being as much of a cull as I first thought :)

I would think if you start with small altums the cardinals will probably do OK. Throwing small to med sized cardianls with large altums would probably lead to expensive late night snacks.

So far I have only put 20 cardinals in my big tank with the altums. At first the altums were interested but it didn't last long and as far as I know, none were eaten. They now do not bother with them. I expect to be able to put a few hundred more in there in a couple of weeks.

Stuart


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 12:07 am 
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Wow Stuart,

A hundred and twenty cardinals, that must be give a spectacular sight. If you do maybe you can share a few pictures of this with us.

Cheers,
Carla


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 3:55 pm 
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Stuart, how big are your altum by now, I mean, on that hefty diet of cardinal tetras you provided?

Or were they still too small to get theior first bite?

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God listens. He may not always give you everything you want, when you want it; but he always gives you what you really need, when you need it most!
E.R.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 3:56 pm 
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Stuart, how big are your altum by now, I mean, on that hefty diet of cardinal tetras you provided?

Or were they still too small to get their first bite?

_________________
God listens. He may not always give you everything you want, when you want it; but he always gives you what you really need, when you need it most!
E.R.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 4:33 am 
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I've used medium cardinals to mature both altum and discus tanks, 6 or so weeks later I've put in the altums, no problems.
Further down the line I decided to fill the tank with some jumbo breeder cardinals, and the altums have shot through the shoal of medium cardinals to get at the big ones, presumably as they were showing fear signs. Same thing happens with discus. It's obviously down to the attitude of the cardinals, as the same thing happens if I try to add to the medium cardinals, the altums seem to know which are the new introductions and go straight for them...................

Cheers G


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 4:34 am 
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I've used medium cardinals to mature both altum and discus tanks, 6 or so weeks later I've put in the altums, no problems.
Further down the line I decided to fill the tank with some jumbo breeder cardinals, and the altums have shot through the shoal of medium cardinals to get at the big ones, presumably as they were showing fear signs. Same thing happens with discus. It's obviously down to the attitude of the cardinals, as the same thing happens if I try to add to the medium cardinals, the altums seem to know which are the new introductions and go straight for them...................

Cheers G


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 5:53 am 
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Location: Toronto Canada
Granville,
that is very interesting. I am constantly surprised by the ability of the altum to differentiate.
Most noticable is their ability to pick out articles that are not usual in their surrounds.
They are frightened by some black objects, but not by a big german shepherd ( mainly black) or my black jacket, even if I only wear it once a week.
They are frightened by the powerhead, if I hang it on the edge of the tank in a different spot than usual. Normally I can hang the powerhead on the edge while squeezing out the sponge filter and they are not alarmed, and drop the filter back in, no problem.
So I find their ability to differentiate between similar objects - and between objects "behaving" in the usual way vs an unusual way- to be remarkable.
Dave


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 6:24 am 
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Hey Dave,
Here's one to think about, I got 3 of my mates to wear the same top as me, we are all about the same weight and build ( to reduce variables), and all took it in turns to approach several tanks of my long term acclimatised altums, at random, and we all agreed the altums reacted differently to me than to the rest, I made sure I wasn't the first or last visitor to the tanks. It may seem odd, but I'm possitive the fish could recognise me, so did the others, we all know I'm not 100% sane, but I'm convinced being relitively long lived creatures, altums are more intelligent than we give them credit for....................................

Cheers G


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 7:04 am 
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Location: Toronto Canada
G,
When we recognize a person, basic cues are used , especially from a distance: general shape, hair, skin colour, and the way we walk- from a distance, the posture and movement of the person is distinct.
After seeing how many animals have superior communication abilities, computing abilities, and memory, it's funny that people still evaluate intelligence of animals on whether they have fur or not, and generally by how closely they are like humans.
The altums seem quite a bit more developed in these abilities we are talking about than some other fish.
D


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 8:39 am 
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Hi,

As for recognition... Altum do have the ability to recognize you.

I do feed them their main food most of the time (live and froozen) and my boyfriend does give them some snacks (flakes) later in the evening. When he is in front of the tank the Altum dance to him begging for food, but if I come and stand next to him also in front of the tank. They shift to me and start begging even harder.

They seem to know I do give them larger amounts and more tastier food. Could also be the case I am much prettier :lol:

They also recognize me when I am in the kitchen preparing their food. If I do not look directly at them (out of the corner of my eye) they just stand still in the nearest corner. When I turn my head and look directly at them. They crowd in the corner and try to get my attention by swimming up and down the glass and dance.

They are no Einsteins but they are not as stupid as most people think!

Cheers,
Carla


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 11:52 am 
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I think it's the miss-guided science that says fish only have a 4 minute memory span (well mainly goldfish) that's made everyone asume fish are dumb, I've caught large goldfish on a hook and line, as an experiment, and take it from me, 6 weeks later they still refuse to eat the food that was on the hook that caught them.........................................

Cheers G


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 11:52 am 
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I think it's the miss-guided science that says fish only have a 4 minute memory span (well mainly goldfish) that's made everyone asume fish are dumb, I've caught large goldfish on a hook and line, as an experiment, and take it from me, 6 weeks later they still refuse to eat the food that was on the hook that caught them.........................................

Cheers G


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 12:07 pm 
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Location: Toronto Canada
I think that was the short term memory of goldfish...guess the hook and line gives a more long-term memorable experience...but there is no way they have the 4 second memory in any case...they couldn't be trained to swim thru hoops if they had such short memories.
There are other people saying fish don't have the system to feel pain as we know it...pretty ridiculous...how do these people make it into the science write-ups?
D


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