Deworming / Deparasiting Altum & otherwild caught cichlids

#1
For oral use as prophylactic treatment or when I notice symptoms that I believe may be GI related (lack of appetite, emaciation, dark skin, self isolation, etc.)

1. Make a medicated solution by dissolving a packet of API General Cure (i.e.) in a few ounces of RO water and add Seachem Focus or a little natural gelatin powder. Mix well.

2. Pour several tablespoons (as needed per amount of fish for some 16 days of total treatment) of Freeze Dried Blood Worm in a bowl.

3. Pour the medicated solution you made over the FDBW and knead them until the solution has been absorbed by the FDBW.

4. Freeze.

5. Fish should have been fasted for at least 24 (I'll easily do 36-48 hours)

6. Feed in the morning and in the evening, just enough to keep them hungry for next meal... common sense and observation.

The API General Cure as I said contains basically metro, prazi and salt, nothing else and I will usually use it for prophylactic treatment of healthy looking fish that may be a bit short of appetite.

If the fish show definite symptoms, I will instead use pure metronidazole (Flagyl) and mix it with a veterinary grade product which combines prazi, febantel and pyrantel (instead of API General Cure), among these products I have used brand names Bayer Drontal Plus and Canidon (Greece).

DURING TREATMENT OF NEWLY ACQUIRED SYMPTOMATIC FISH I FEED ABOVE MEDICATED PREP FOR 3-4 WEEKS. ON DAYS 1-4 OF THE WEEK I PROVIDE THE MEDICATED FEED AND ON DAYS 5-7, I PROVIDE ONE MEAL OF FROZEN BRINE SHRIMP PER DAY. SO ITS 4 DAYS ON MEDICATED FEED AND 3 DAYS OFF, FOR A MAX OF FOUR WEEKS OR ONE WEEK AFTER THE FISH LOOK TO BE WELL RECOVERED. USE COMMON SENSE, THE MORE EMACIATED AND SICK YOUR FISH ARE, THE LONGER THEY WILL TAKE TO RECOVER, BUT FISH THAT ARE JUST POOR IN APPETITE AND THAT ARE OTHERWISE HEALTHY NEED LESS TREATMENT. IF YOUR FISH LOOK GOOD WHEN THEY ARRIVE AS FAR AS WEIGHT AND SUBSTANCE, TWO TREATMENT SESSIONS SHOULD BE ENOUGH.

DURING THE ENTIRE TREATMENT MAKE SURE YOU KEEP UN THE T AT 88 TO 90F. YOU CAN LOWER THE T TO AROUND 84-86F ON THE REST DAYS (BRINE SHRIMP DAYS).



For rapid breathing or scraping against objects due to apparent gill or skin parasites, but fish are otherwise eating well and look normal.

1. Hikari Prazipro (a proprietary liquid formulation containing praziquantel) directly in water column. For altums and heckel discus I use (as you said), half the dose recommended on label on the first day. If all looks well, I add 25% more on the second day. This is still below the recommended concentration but it has worked for me.

2. On green discus and scalare I have used the normal dose (full 100%) as of the second day, also starting the first day at 50%.

I have never used Hikari Prazipro in the feed but I am curious if it can be done and not kill the fish. Prazipro is highly absorbed and ready to use, no need of dissolving.

A final note: The contents of a new bottle of Prazipro will turn into a milky solution for a few seconds as it hits the water column and make the water very slightly turbid, clearing up in a few hours. I once purchased an older bottle and when adding to the aquarium, I saw no milky reaction, it was simply clear, and the fish had a bad reaction... I had to change water fast. So if you need to buy some, make sure it is from a store that moves a good inventory quickly.

I RARELY SEE FISH TREATED BY THE ORAL METHOD SUFFERING FROM SKIN AND GILL FLUKES.
Last edited by puertoayacucho on Sat Aug 31, 2013 10:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.
God listens. He may not always give you everything you want, when you want it; but he always gives you what you really need, when you need it most!
E.R.

Re: Deworming / Deparasiting Altum & otherwild caught cichli

#2
Hi Ed...I'm back after abdominal surgery...a bit more to go (hernia)...anyhow, my 8 albino angels are doing well (knock on wood)...and I want to keep it that way...changing 1/2 tank twice a week...

Under these circumstances, would you do anything prophilacticaly or just keep changing water and hope for the best?...My discus tank (on the other hand) , has heximeta and after tons of metro, parazi, etc. they still seem to be going one by one...

Regards and hope to hear from you...

In angels,

Ken :?

Re: Deworming / Deparasiting Altum & otherwild caught cichli

#3
Albino Angels being domestic may not need deworming if that is your question? In wilds we worry about what comes in their gut (or ecto, on body) from nature.

As to your discus, if it is hexamita or other related issue that can be treated by the meds in this protocol, you need to make sure all life stages of the critters are covered. If you don't preform at least a first complete cycle the critters could develop resistance and that would not be good.

In wild discus, I would do a full month with weekly rests. If your discus are of domesticated strains, you should kook into other possibilities of illness.

Ed
God listens. He may not always give you everything you want, when you want it; but he always gives you what you really need, when you need it most!
E.R.

Re: Deworming / Deparasiting Altum & otherwild caught cichli

#4
:shock: Ed:

Thanks for your quick reply...

I origanally had 10 angels...lost 2 (tried treating) but everyone else seems happy, eating good, etc...I also suspected heximeta but haven't had any symptoms for maybe 2 months...worms or whatever, is it sensible to medicate with something as a prophilactic or should I keep changing water and walt for a problem (maybe never)...

I feed a good variety including my homemade discus food, Hitachi worms and brine, flake and pellets...

Thanks...Ken :?

Re: Deworming / Deparasiting Altum & otherwild caught cichli

#5
If all your fish are tank bred, I would wait and see if they become symptomatic for something in particular. Newly acquired wild cichlids should be treated because there is a high risk that they develop a disease due to stress and reproduction of the different pathogens that naturally occur in their organisms in nature (where healthy fish in their natural environment can keep them under control) but when collected, shipped, etc, their immune system is overwhelmed impeding the fish to fight the otherwise inoffensive microbes, worms, flukes, etc. pathogen in general.
God listens. He may not always give you everything you want, when you want it; but he always gives you what you really need, when you need it most!
E.R.

Re: Deworming / Deparasiting Altum & otherwild caught cichli

#6
Ed...this may have been covered, but my mind is not 100% anicipating my 2nd surger in 3 weeks time...

Anyhow...I have 6 3" silver dollars and 4 silver hatchets in quarantine...the SD's will go in with the three remaining discus (110) and the hatchets are to join the two remaining in my 90 albino angel tank...both large tanks are doing fine...the angels are absolutely stunning...everyone is eating like crazy and all looks good...

The SD's seem fine...I've had them all in a 30 QT using Rid-Ich plus for a week now...using Rid ich because a couple of the hatchets had some thing on the fins, some streaks or spots...not full blown ich , but who knows?...one of the H. stays near the side of the tank but I think that he was stressed by the SD's although everything seems to be settling down...

I saw one of your posts talking about quarantining...I think that you said a week of de-iching and a week of metro should do it...since there in the QT together...should I wait for the H's to be OK or get the SD's into the 110 before that...

Any advise would be appreciated...oh, temp is about 82 and Ph is 6.9 in the QT...

What I want to do is to get everything in order before my surgery (9/23) because I won't be moving around much after that for at least one or two months...

Thanks again...and thanks for all your help in the past...Ken :|

Re: Deworming / Deparasiting Altum & otherwild caught cichli

#7
As to ich, it's not part of my quarantine protocol because generally, this (disease) would be acquired in the tank or it would develop only if the new fish would acquire it on the way to you (at importer/vendor, i.e.), but since it is highly symptomatic (you can notice it right away and clearly diagnose it), I only treat it, IF, I am sure it's ich.

Now, we have Kordon Rid-Ich (chemical) and we have Kordon Ich-Attack (herbal), the former is pretty strong and not the best for characins, very easily lethal to loricaridae. I have used the latter with great success, even as a prophylactic tonic at times. I have also used the fomer of course, and lost quite a few L128 and L200 to it.

I would wait until hatchets are nice and strong before putting them back with the Silver Dollars. You can also increase T to around 86 for several days to smother and erradicate the ich for good, without need to use any product. But I would definitely change to Ich Attack from Rid Ich if you are treating characins and catfish of any kind. For ich, best is warmer temps. 3-4 weeks of 86F (no chemicals) and there will not be any life stage of ich left in your tank. Then you should give these fish a temperature they are better suited to... a constant 82-84F, though a bit above the 78-80 they prefer, will keep the ich away.

A note here, with Kordon Ich Attack (not the Rid-Ich), it would be perfectly fine to prepare a quarantine tank adding this product as a preventive (vs. a cure) while feeding metro+prazi composite laced food to treat the natural GI endo pathogen that DO come with the wildcaught fish.

Good luck.

Ed
God listens. He may not always give you everything you want, when you want it; but he always gives you what you really need, when you need it most!
E.R.

Re: Deworming / Deparasiting Altum & otherwild caught cichli

#10
Andy, this is new information, at least for me. I see it is an update from late 2013, and I am sure the product I have used is previous to this, that is. MAYBE, it did not contain the copper sulfate. Knowing this, I will take precaution and test with cheaper tank bred angelfish or other fish to see what happens.

For the last year or so I have switched over to Jungle Internal Parasite Guard (containing metro, prazi and salt as per label), it is a really good product, but it seems that having Tetra taken over the Jungle company, the product now sells under the Tetra brand and though this should be a good thing, I am not sure if the ingredients are the same or if it is sold in a soluble powder form; what I have seen from Tetra comes in fizz tablets...

Yesterday I accidentally purchased some Jungle medicated food containing metro, prazi and levamisole (non sold inventories being cleared at my LFS), I might give it a try, though it'll be hard for my altums to get to it before the cories do (it sinks). I'll need to find a way to get it to float.

Ed
God listens. He may not always give you everything you want, when you want it; but he always gives you what you really need, when you need it most!
E.R.
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