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 Post subject: De l'aide en France !!
PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2014 12:04 pm 
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Hello friends pterophyllum , I do not speak English and I used google translation to my messages so sorry for the lexicon .
I'm looking for help for my situation , I have 10 Pt Altum in 840 liters ( 210 gallons ?) In my group were 15 months and 8 are siegrist F3 line from Germany .
2 others are Wild Inirida there are between 2 and 3 years and began as a couple, they hunt and other clean sheet of anubias , I lower the temp of 29C to 25C of the many water change KH 0 , GH 2 , conductivity 100 based food to white vase, mysis , brine shrimp and discus granules at least twice a day.
Lately I lower the ph of 6.6 to 4.3 with acid and fruit alders.
The female oviduct out, the male sperm duct are also visible but still not spawning and it 's been a month away and they parade the other occupant.
He shook his head as do the discus before spawning ...
What is needed to trigger spawning ?
I said that I raise without discussion and scalar problem F1 rio nanay well as Manacapuru but this is an aditional problem with these beautiful fish.
Thank you for your help.


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PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2014 1:10 pm 
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That's good news Jacob that you seem to have a pair. I notice their biological clocks are still corresponding to that of Mother Nature... so I ask, are they your wild caught Iniridas or are they your Siegrest F3 that seem to be pairing off? Or maybe one of each have formed a pair?

Only weeks ago have they started to breed in nature*, so they are still "in tune". Most wildcaught altum tend to start a breeding cycle somewhere nearing late April, May and June, and may continue throughout July and into August. They tend to slow down as the Orinoco rainy season starts to dwindle. It is "normally over" by November**.

Now your fish seem to be simply responding to your good husbandry so at this point, I would only recommend you keep doing what you are doing and see how it goes.

Then, if you're the "experimental type", like a few kids I know in Vegas (hmmmm...who might they be?), you can stop the water changes for a few weeks and increase your T to the low 90's (32 to 34C) slowly allowing/increasing pH to the middle 6's. If you can find clean white mosquito larvae, that would be optimal, but the idea is to feed little but frequently (we do not want any left over food as we are minimizing water changes). tank should of course have very well cycled filters and we are always staying in the acid side of the pH scale (away from any possible ammonia issues).

Then, using preconditioned cool water (+/-24C) at a lower pH (+/-4.0) and very soft, as soft as it gets), hopefully with catappa, alder or peat moss extracts and a bit of trace mineral, start a rain cycle***. Pick an early evening that best suits your work schedule (i.e.,for me 4pm on a Friday would work great because i don't usually work on Saturday and Sundays).

What we are trying to do is to simulate, in a very concentrated way, a seasonal cycle, a biosimulation of what normally takes a year in nature, taking advantage of the fact that your fish are "in the mood" because it's the right time of year.

When Mike Troxel'l first achieved his first Inirida altum breeding in 2012 he followed through for a whole year with patience and full dedication and he was successful.

Dr. Dennis Chang is probably less traditional and more experimental and I am pretty sure he has done very well with what we might call "Intense Cycling" and though we have not been able to talk much these past months, he has done very well with both Inirida and Atabapo (Inirida X Atabapo) and Pure Atabapo. Dr. Chang and Mr. Troxell are now partnering in their work with altum...They are the above mentioned Vegas Kids (I call them Kids out of pure affection!).

I will invite Mike and Dennis to see if they can share a few moments with us on this thread but all of us have been loaded with work and time seems everyday shorter to do the things we enjoy.

I'm so thankful that Dirk dropped me a quick note about this thread to come over and give you some support... and we will be anxiously waiting for success on your side.

Notes:
*/** Seasons have been changing, sliding, and in the last decades it seems they are not as marked as they once where (global warming?). Nowadays it will rain well into December in Northern South America (Orinoco Basin) and this affects the fauna in many ways. Two years ago we had an incredibly long and even "overly" productive "Altum season" and we saw juvenile wild altum coming in almost continuously for a year,indicating the natural breeding season ran overtime.
*** November was conventionally considered the end of the rainy or wet season in the tropics above the equator and the start of the wet season in the tropics below the equator, hence we had that when the wet season was finishing in Orinoquia...it was beginning in Amazonia. Today this seems to be not so marked and even varying or shifting. So when I refer to Rain Cycle, I am referring to simulating the beginning of the wet season which starts in May in the Orinoco. Very intense downpours traditionally begin around the first week of May and these downpours frequently occur in the late afternoon and early evening hours ([i]making reference to the Puerto Ayacucho area, but this happens throughout the Orinoco basin and northernmost Amazonia
) I would suggest the water changes when trying to produce this biosimulation be slow but continuos over a period of 24-48 hours. So the t will drop from around 32C to near 24-26C in that time frame and ph will drop accordingly from the mid 6's to the mid 4's.

Regards

Ed

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God listens. He may not always give you everything you want, when you want it; but he always gives you what you really need, when you need it most!
E.R.


Last edited by puertoayacucho on Sun May 25, 2014 11:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2014 7:01 am 
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Hi Jacobin,

I would suggest having the breeding pair alone in their tank and reduce any environmental stressors/movements so that they feel more secure and have the utmost privacy. Continue with the water changes and temperature drop. I would suggest pushing pH down to 3.9 if they are tubing yet hesitant to spawn. Finally try some live food (I use live blackworms to trigger the pairs in addition to frozen white worms).

Good luck!

Dennis



Jacobin wrote:
Hello friends pterophyllum , I do not speak English and I used google translation to my messages so sorry for the lexicon .
I'm looking for help for my situation , I have 10 Pt Altum in 840 liters ( 210 gallons ?) In my group were 15 months and 8 are siegrist F3 line from Germany .
2 others are Wild Inirida there are between 2 and 3 years and began as a couple, they hunt and other clean sheet of anubias , I lower the temp of 29C to 25C of the many water change KH 0 , GH 2 , conductivity 100 based food to white vase, mysis , brine shrimp and discus granules at least twice a day.
Lately I lower the ph of 6.6 to 4.3 with acid and fruit alders.
The female oviduct out, the male sperm duct are also visible but still not spawning and it 's been a month away and they parade the other occupant.
He shook his head as do the discus before spawning ...
What is needed to trigger spawning ?
I said that I raise without discussion and scalar problem F1 rio nanay well as Manacapuru but this is an aditional problem with these beautiful fish.
Thank you for your help.


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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2014 12:36 pm 
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Location: Belgium and France
Thank you for your interesting answers, I have a tank of 200 liters (50 gallons?) Naked with a net height of 60 cm (25 "?) That the couple be able to accommodate, if I transfers then I meterai water that is their current aquarium and then work on their conditions thereafter, the only doubt and the stress of the move and it is true that they spend their time chasing all the occupants of the aquarium where they are and it must also stress them.
I also pensser to separate their current tray evec canvas (net)
But not easy to implement
Thank you anyway to worry about and respond to the other side of the Atlantic here in France or the elections gives the extreme right parties in power in Europe!
Viva the world and the international exchange;
thank you


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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2014 11:29 pm 
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I recommend you consider getting a larger aquarium for the pair. Especially as to the height...try to get one closer to 70cm. A 300-400 liter would be more suitable. When it comes to breeding, these fish need privacy...as Dennis indicated...but also space.

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God listens. He may not always give you everything you want, when you want it; but he always gives you what you really need, when you need it most!
E.R.


Last edited by puertoayacucho on Mon May 26, 2014 8:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 3:53 am 
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Ok I'll try this before but I will try to divide the aid of a net the whole tray.
thank you


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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 10:22 am 
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Will be anxiously monitoring this thread! Do you have photos of your fish, Jacobin?


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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 9:54 pm 
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You may pick up some ideas from this old thread

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=427&p=5085&hilit=pozo+cristal#p5085

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God listens. He may not always give you everything you want, when you want it; but he always gives you what you really need, when you need it most!
E.R.


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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 12:28 pm 
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Thank you very much for this link, it's exciting, I thought a track that I think in the past which is the redox potetiel.
So I already ordered an ORP tester on ebay and I will try to find an ozone generator.
Did you model good or good address to find my happiness right price?
thank you.


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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 12:58 pm 
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Knowing that I would like to treat a tank 210 gallons, I wonder what rate in mg / h for ateindre I must have a redox potential of about 400?


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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2014 12:55 pm 
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http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid= ... &_from=R40

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God listens. He may not always give you everything you want, when you want it; but he always gives you what you really need, when you need it most!
E.R.


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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2014 11:24 pm 
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In Europe the model of Philips is frequently offered.

http://www.cichlidenkwekers.nl/philips- ... -purifier/

Philips offre un modele qui semble couramment offert en Europe. Essayez sur Google.


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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2014 11:32 pm 
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It is difficult to calculate or foresee the throughput of ozone you will need to get the target of 400 mV. It will depend upon the content on 'oxydable' (organic) matter in the first place. I have almost 400 mV without addition of ozone in a quite heavy stocked tank (9 angels in 350l).


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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 12:48 pm 
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Thank you to all


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 1:05 pm 
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Today I have recived my testing for ORP; I am 263mv in my aquarium, now I am waiting for my ozone générator to get a redox 480 mv...


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