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 Post subject: Which Generation?
PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2014 10:20 am 
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Hello from Fulda(Germany)!
I have got a pair Pt. Altum, the male is from my own line (Sigrist F 4), the female is a wild one, very likely from the area Inirida. Hopefully they will be spawnig soon. I`m not sure, what Generation it will be, when I`m successfull. Is it (geneticly) correct, to call it F1? I myself wasn`t good enough in biology in those days. Maybe someone has the answer.
Thanks a lot,
cheers, Martin


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 Post subject: Re: Which Generation?
PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2014 11:54 am 
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Location: Somerset West, South Africa
Hi Martin,

Good to hear from another person in Germany that is having success with breeding P altum.

With regard to your question about how you would refer to the offspring of an F4 Siegrist Line male P altum crossed with a wild-caught female from Inirida, you have a problem, because this brings all of this generations from wild naming into confusion because from the male side the offspring would be F5 and from the female side this would be F1. Well in terms of the naming of generations in Genetics, this brings about a new "cross" if you could call it that. It could be referred to as a Siegrist line backcrossed to Inirida wildtype, F1, because that would be the first generation of this new cross. If you want to document this properly, you need to write a pedigree for all fishes indicating their ancestry. In the breeding of domestic animals, the breeding records are kept very accurately, but this is not done for any domestic fishes as far as I know. Some discus breeders have documented how many generations from wild-caught their fishes are and whether "new blood" has been bred into the offspring, but this needs to be accurately documented in a pedigree document and cannot be abbreviated or summed up in the name by calling them simply F1.

From the evidence that has been presented on various forums and in discussions, it appears likely that the Siegrist line of P altum may have originated from the Rio Inirida. Crossing your Siegrist line P altum back to wild caught P altum from the Rio Inirida is therefore very sensible.

Please keep us informed of your breeding successes with this pair, we always like to hear of breeding successes with Altum on this forum.

I will be presenting a lecture on altums in Neuburg a/d Donau, Germany, on 16 August 2014 which has been organized by Oswald Hanke. Maybe I will be able to meet you there and can explain more.

Kind regards,

Dirk Bellstedt

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Somerset West, South Africa


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 Post subject: Re: Which Generation?
PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2014 11:27 pm 
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Hi Dirk,
up to now I was hasitating if I should come to Neuburg. I did get an Invitation, yesterday Simon Forkel told me, that he registered, also Karlheinz Jakob, another sucessfull PA breeder. I will register today and I´m very much looking forward to meeting you there!
See you soon and thanks for your reply,
Martin


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 Post subject: Re: Which Generation?
PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2014 11:46 am 
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Hi Martin,

I look forward to meeting you, and all the other German P altum breeders in Neuburg in August, it will be an honour for me.

Please keep the forum updated with regard to the breeding of your pair of P altum. Members of this forum look up to the German aquarists that are having repeated success in breeding P altum. You are clearly taking great care in simulating precisely the right conditions that are required to induce these fishes to breed which is a notable achievement.

Kind regards,

Dirk

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Somerset West, South Africa


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 Post subject: Re: Which Generation?
PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2014 1:44 pm 
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How about "Slash F1".....hmmmm. sounds more like an electric guitar model!

Have the best luck and please let us know how it goes for all of you in the Neuburg conference.

Ed

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God listens. He may not always give you everything you want, when you want it; but he always gives you what you really need, when you need it most!
E.R.


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 Post subject: Re: Which Generation?
PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2014 2:13 am 
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Hi Ed,
well, you got me there! This is my Gibson Les Paul Modell "Slash". Actually nothing got to do with beeding PA, but they do have to listen to Rock`n Roll quite often. Maybe that helps them spawnig. I`m playing guitar for ages (semi)professionell. You would probably find me googeling under Martin Günzel...
Best of wishes, Martin


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 Post subject: Re: Which Generation?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 6:40 am 
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Hi Dirk, Ed and all the others!
I´ve been successful indeed. There are quite a few babys swimming since today, hopefully I will get them raised to proper Altum.
It was absolutely astonishing to see the wild female caring for their spawn. She was going over the eggs for many hours after her actual spawning and fertilizing by the Sigrist male. To me it seemed as if she was sealing the eggs with whatever and gluing them on to the cone. I have never seen that before to that extend by the Sigrist-Line. Mind you, about half of the eggs fell off the cone while the male was fertilizing.
Dirk, we will meet in Neuburg. I would very much hear your opinion as regards a “new line”. I hope, we will have some time to talk about that. I will arrive on the evening before your talk.
I will keep the forum informed during the next months.
Good luck,
Martin


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 Post subject: Re: Which Generation?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 11:48 am 
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Hi Martin, that is great news. Hope you took some pics and that you can post them when you have time.

Dirk will be out until July 22nd, so please drop him an email so he sees this when he gets back to civilization. He will not have access to the internet for the next few weeks.

Ed

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God listens. He may not always give you everything you want, when you want it; but he always gives you what you really need, when you need it most!
E.R.


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 Post subject: Re: Which Generation?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 4:11 am 
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Hi Martin and Ed,

I am very glad to hear about your breeding success of your altums, congratulations! This is really an excellent achievement.

It appears as though the German breeders are making very good progress in the breeding of altums and have somehow worked out how to overcome their hesitance to breed.

I look forward to meeting you at the meeting in Germany.

I have just been on a 3 1/2 week camping safari in northern Namibia in the Caprivi Strip and in Botswana in the Okavango swamps, it was a real adventure. In Botswana in the Nature Reserves, they do not fence the camping sites, so you have elephants wondering around as well as hyenas as night. However, I have survived and I now have a lot of work to complete before my German visit to which I am really looking forward to.

Kind regards,

Dirk

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Somerset West, South Africa


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 Post subject: Re: Which Generation?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 10:36 pm 
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Well, I'm so glad we got you back in a single piece.

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God listens. He may not always give you everything you want, when you want it; but he always gives you what you really need, when you need it most!
E.R.


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