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 Post subject: Advice? Poor hatch rates
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:42 am 
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I have a pair of peruvians ... F1 male and F2 daughter of sibling to the male ... I'm getting very poor hatch-out from the last several spawns (actually it has been a problem with other pairs over the past 5 years ...). The 1st spawn yield 0 hatch, the 2nd gave me 50+. Unfortunatly the fry tank broke so I lost all those ... 2 subsequent spawns yielded less than 10 fry hatching.

Not sure the pH or hardness (equipment is down). I'm using tap water. Most recently used 50% RO with peat (blackwater) extract. I've put the eggs (slate) into a 2.5 gallon with RO + peat extract + almond leaf @ 82 degrees.

Most probable causes? I'm thinking hardness or minerals in water, though RO should solve ...? Vitamins?

Background ... I used to have a hatchery in my home so I've raised thousands of fry in the past. I never had to play with water parameters as the tap water (used to be) soft enough. Was successful with discuss. I can recall some domestic pairs not having real good (adequate ... 50%) hatchouts several years ago. It has been at least a uear since I've bred angels, and very little breeding over the past 5 years.

Give my your thoughts on correcting ... I yern for the days of 90+% hatchout!


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:37 am 
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Hi Jeffrey,

Please fill in your personal details so that your location is indicated under your name when you send a mail. In that way we can see where you come from, this will give us a indication of what your water conditions are likely to be and that will indicate to us what sort of advice we need to give you.

There is no reason why Peruvians should not have a very high hatch rate.

Kind regards,

Dirk

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:12 pm 
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Dirk Bellstedt wrote:
Hi Jeffrey,

Please fill in your personal details so that your location is indicated under your name when you send a mail. In that way we can see where you come from, this will give us a indication of what your water conditions are likely to be and that will indicate to us what sort of advice we need to give you.


OK ... done


Dirk Bellstedt wrote:
There is no reason why Peruvians should not have a very high hatch rate.

Kind regards,

Dirk


Yes, that's my concern ... what would cause this, in order of probability?


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:30 pm 
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Jeff,
Have you tried hatching with a sterile tank an airstone an 1ml hydrogen peroxide per gallon every 12 hrs? I get 99% hatch rates where I was lucky to get 25% before. My problem is most likely bacterial. I setup a clean 10 anytime I want to raise a spawn. My tap is pH 7.8 and the TDS is around 450 right now.

Mike


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:36 am 
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19ghost79 wrote:
Jeff,
Have you tried hatching with a sterile tank an airstone an 1ml hydrogen peroxide per gallon every 12 hrs? I get 99% hatch rates where I was lucky to get 25% before. My problem is most likely bacterial. I setup a clean 10 anytime I want to raise a spawn. My tap is pH 7.8 and the TDS is around 450 right now.

Mike


I'll give it a shot ...


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:03 pm 
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After they hatch i introduce a cycled sponge filter. Good Luck.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:53 pm 
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Could be bad breeder pair, Is this the only pair you have?


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:00 am 
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James He wrote:
Could be bad breeder pair, Is this the only pair you have?


I've seen problems with other pairs in the past ... the only pair currently set up. Maybe I'll pair up some domestic fish and see what the hatchout looks like ...


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:02 am 
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Some more questions ...

1) thoughts about vitamins?

2) I feed krill pellets and FD Bloodworms ...?

3) How long after eggs are laid will sterile eggs show up? How about eggs that die (don't hatch out, but not infertile?


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:43 pm 
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You should know your tap water hardness.

If tap water is very hard, add more than 50% of RO water to proper range.

I won't add blackwater extract as Peruvian is not living in the blackwater

I will only use air stone and few drop of Methylene Blue.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:36 am 
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OK ... not water (at least the parameters) ... brought a sample to my LFS/friend and we determined the water is acid (6.5ish) and relatively soft (under 150 ppm TDS).

I set up a second pair of Blacks to see what they produce ...


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:01 pm 
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Did you try the H202?


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:26 pm 
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19ghost79 wrote:
Did you try the H202?


haven't had any more spawns since my post ...


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:20 pm 
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Jeffreyrichard wrote:
Some more questions ...

1) thoughts about vitamins?

2) I feed krill pellets and FD Bloodworms ...?

3) How long after eggs are laid will sterile eggs show up? How about eggs that die (don't hatch out, but not infertile?


Don´t rely solely on freeze dried or frozen foods, if it is true that these are always desirable (IMO), the fish also need a good algal supplement and vitamin-mineral laced food.

Even when we consider a true carnivore species, they eat predigested vegetable matter when eating their prey (inside their preys´ GI tract).

This especially applies if you use very soft water.

Not that this is the reason of your issues Jeff, but I am sure this piece (of advice) will fit in your puzzle.

Ed

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:27 pm 
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You may also consider increasing T near the 90´s, maybe some metro as a "tonic" to help clean any malady that may be lurking in their system. The catappa can also be of help, but look for a rich whisky color in your water column when using it.

After at least two cycles of metro and high T, take out the metro. Keep up the catappa and high T (86-88F).

This is what I would do to get them in the mood (like when you turn the lights down with your wifey or GF).

I like Mike´s advice... for the actual post spawn.

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God listens. He may not always give you everything you want, when you want it; but he always gives you what you really need, when you need it most!
E.R.


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