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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:16 pm 
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Above fish 2 month old.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:33 pm 
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In planted tank. two month old.
color of body and bar is different.

Courtesy of Orchid in the Wind.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:38 pm 
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above fish one month old.

Courtesy of Orchid in the Wind


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:44 pm 
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This is another setup, with bogwood and may be blackwater.
Lots of O2.

5/23/2012, Courtesy of Ziliudi


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Last edited by James He on Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:46 pm 
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two weeks later:
6/5/2012


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Last edited by James He on Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:48 pm 
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I show here three different setup from three friends.
they get exactly same fish to begin with.

Bare bottom tank,
Planted tank
and Amazon biotope.

I saw huge different only after one month.
don't want to jump to conclusion too soon, but surely can get some clue out of these experiments.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:28 pm 
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Hi James,

Very nice pictures, thanks for sharing! Any idea what the "puzzle/secret" these breeders in China have uncovered in their approach?

Dennis


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:18 pm 
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califish wrote:
Hi James,

Very nice pictures, thanks for sharing! Any idea what the "puzzle/secret" these breeders in China have uncovered in their approach?

Dennis


Deninis,

I don't know, he didn't say any of details yet.

He did make Altum spawn back 2007, but no survivors.
Finally he made it this year.

Only one breeder successfully bred the Altum, and then gave baby Altum to few friends, so all the pictures here are from same batch of spawn.

But raise under different environments.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:27 pm 
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2007 Spawn


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 2:35 am 
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James,
Which setup yielded the most natural looking altums?


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:22 am 
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19ghost79 wrote:
James,
Which setup yielded the most natural looking altums?


I would say the Amazon Biotope.

It doesn't grow as fast as bare bottom setup, but more closer to wild baby.
and the bar development is much better. flawless.

The bare bottom setup, most of baby missing the bottom half bar. even it grows back later, but much thinner.

You can notice the atitude of the little guys too.

Please remember, the babies are raised in bare bottom tank for the first two weeks, before went to difference setups.
Baby altum became free swimmer on 4/9, and went three friends on 4/23.

So if you can start at beginning with Amazon biotope, it would be interesting to see.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 10:49 pm 
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Interesting. I would think that broken bars is genetical, not so much environmental.

Is it not just that in the bare bottom tank they try to be as invisible as possible by not showing their bars and in the decorated tank to do the opposite for the same reason?

_________________
Video's of my Pt. Altum, Pt. sp. Santa Isabel and Pt. Sp. Rio Nanay:
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... type=&aq=f


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:57 pm 
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Joost wrote:
Interesting. I would think that broken bars is genetical, not so much environmental.

Is it not just that in the bare bottom tank they try to be as invisible as possible by not showing their bars and in the decorated tank to do the opposite for the same reason?


In animal development, environmental factors permanently effecting phenotypic traits and functionality later in life are common place. It's usually during a "window of plasticity", also known as the critical period, during which cell migration and/or synaptic connections will only result if the young animal is exposed to certain environmental stimuli, beyond which the trait or function can be permanently deprived to a certain extent. For example this is seen a lot in studies related visual/auditory functions in birds, cat, and other mammals. Perhaps the difference in F1 altum striping is closely related to this phenomenon?

Dennis


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:36 am 
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Ok that sounds sensible. But then that would be a major difference from p. scalare. I have never seen differences between parents and offspring when raising the fry from wild scalare in bb tanks.

Tank raised angels, even F1 does show behavior though that is different from wild caughts.

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Video's of my Pt. Altum, Pt. sp. Santa Isabel and Pt. Sp. Rio Nanay:
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... type=&aq=f


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 3:20 pm 
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Joost wrote:
Ok that sounds sensible. But then that would be a major difference from p. scalare. I have never seen differences between parents and offspring when raising the fry from wild scalare in bb tanks.

Tank raised angels, even F1 does show behavior though that is different from wild caughts.


Interesting comparison between wild scalare vs altums and their dometicated progeny. I am no expert in breeding either species, yet the overall subtle differences in development between the two can certainly highlight what we see in the level of difficulty regarding most aspects of altum acclimation/keeping/breeding etc. Then again this critical period/plasticity can also work in our favor as the fish is hardier and more accustomed to the local, domesticated environment. It's all a fine balancing act of preserving the best traits/behavior while being vigilant of equally important aesthetic triggers?

Dennis


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