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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 2:30 pm 
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDy72iMv ... ature=fvwp

We should have this link somewhere else I believe, but I wanted to bring the attention of our members to it again.

After watching the video a second time, a bit more patiently, (I don't even know how it popped up on my screen as I was doing something else), I noticed that several of the breeders had broken bars or half missing bars, not one, not two, I am saying several. Then I went back and counted and saw at least seven breeders with broken and even completely missing bars. The video finishes with pics and a short clip showing a tank with a ton of defective altums, a very high percentage showing these undesirable broken bar, half bar and missing bar traits. This is sad.

The probabilities of catching such fish (breeders) in the wild is virtually NONE and nobody wants to purposely select fish with non typical and undesirable traits for breeding.

This person has made no effort to produce a typical or representative strain of P.altum, despite the many other qualities that they may have in common with the species. They look more like altum than they do scalare. I am not saying they are not "pure", just that they are "poor" (as an example of typical Orinoco Altum).

I am not sure who this altum breeding setup belongs to, but if someone knows, please point him in my direction.

If this person is affirming that his breeders are wild and that he is selling F1 altum, he needs to be educated, better informed, and that's what Finarama is here for!

Sorry if I sound grouchy or P.O'd, I just am.

Ed

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Last edited by puertoayacucho on Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:37 pm 
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I do need to apologize to all Taiwanese breeders and may I say I have great respect for fish breeders from Taiwan... It is this specific facility which I feel needs advice.

Ed

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God listens. He may not always give you everything you want, when you want it; but he always gives you what you really need, when you need it most!
E.R.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:51 pm 
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Let us hope that those Taiwanese fish in the video are not representative of efforts to produce TB Altum. I think that the breeder has squandered the genetic material.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 3:59 pm 
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I think he squandered a boat load of cash on unnecessary gadgets in addition to the squandering of genetic material.

I just don't get the whole techie thing with keeping fish. I am a firm believer in less is more.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 5:26 pm 
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You know Bev, I can't agree more. I haven't had the patience to just cut off my canisters and go sponge... the only things I consider are of great help are my RO and my UV's, other than that, I would really want to rely solely on sponge filters and maybe a conventional HOB for the purpose of eventual resins or carbon.

I think many of us, and I don't escape from this completely, invest unnecessary money in stuff we really don't need and that we can probably invest in larger tanks of more or better quality food.

Ed

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 11:56 am 
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An Aquaclear powerhead 70 does a nice job of water polishing, if you connect the output to some tubing, and loosely stuff the tubing a bit with filter floss.

When the hose-like output is damped down to an easy flow by the filter floss pack, it is polishing the water. Takes a couple of hours to clear a cloudy tank...you may have to replace the filter floss after it clears a tank, as it's getting clogged.

Just sponge filters alone is not quite good enough, to my way of thinking. It's what I'm using right now, but previously I used the Aquaclear powerhead to polish water and I'm going to have to start that again.

The thing about the setups that is confusing, is that it seems no attempt is being made to breed strategically to get back to the "altum" look.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 5:05 pm 
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Hi Dave. Nice point here on the way we need to set up our filtration and still conserve a natural looking altum habitat tank. I'd like to ask you if you want to open a thread and will spin off over there. I think we can bring a lot of nice ideas to life.

The Aquaclear 70 has the polishing sleeve in the black cartridge you snap underneath which is probably the best and most practical polisher around.
Also, the fastest clogging so you need several at hand depending on how messed up the water is.

Sponges, you have them coarser and finer. The traditional fine hydro sponge does a great polishing job after a few days, even if it's not a quick polishing solution.

Magnum 350 with polishing cartridges are also great and fast and the cartridges are reusable, easily cleaned in a bleach solution.

But all this has little to do with your subject: maximum water clarity in a simple way and still maintaining a natural looking habitat tank.

Ed

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God listens. He may not always give you everything you want, when you want it; but he always gives you what you really need, when you need it most!
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:32 am 
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These so called bred altums were all the rage a few years back but since people realized that the bars do not reach the end of the body, most of them have given up on these bred types.

These bred ones are also the reason why many were hesitant about Tony Tan's altums. I did get my hands on a few juveniles but noticed that they weren't "different" enough from a scalare group. The few things i noticed about this new ones coming from Malaysia are:
In peruvians and scalares - the bars darken and the "ear" becomes visible when they are stable. The red eye rings as well.
In the altum type (as with the santa isabel types) - the barring comes out when they are stressed and the the body is actually lighter when they are stable. this applies when they are young or just a few weeks in the tank.
Note: these are my observations and may not be true.

I have a seen fully adult specimens in a shop in singapore and they are really huge! but the incomplete bars leave an undesirable impression, IMO.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:37 am 
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Hi Jitticus,

In other threads on this forum, we have discussed that the Tony Tan altums are in actual fact altums that come from the Linke bred fishes from Germany a number of years ago. Linke fishes often had the problem of the broken lines and this is what you are seeing here.

If you would go to the pictures of the altums of Simon Forkel on another thread on this forum, you will see that the Linke altums have the shortest fins of all the known altums, so again this agrees with what you are stating. Furthermore, the Linke altums also do get very large bodies.

As far as the evidence of where the original Linke fishes came from nature, they can only be P altum, but it is impossible to assess what has happened after that with regard to possible interbreeding.

So this is a summary of the history of these angels if I have all my facts straight, perhaps Ed can verify this.

Kind regards,

Dirk

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:18 am 
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Jitticus wrote:
These so called bred altums were all the rage a few years back but since people realized that the bars do not reach the end of the body, most of them have given up on these bred types.

These bred ones are also the reason why many were hesitant about Tony Tan's altums. I did get my hands on a few juveniles but noticed that they weren't "different" enough from a scalare group. The few things i noticed about this new ones coming from Malaysia are:
In peruvians and scalares - the bars darken and the "ear" becomes visible when they are stable. The red eye rings as well.
In the altum type (as with the santa isabel types) - the barring comes out when they are stressed and the the body is actually lighter when they are stable. this applies when they are young or just a few weeks in the tank.
Note: these are my observations and may not be true.

I have a seen fully adult specimens in a shop in singapore and they are really huge! but the incomplete bars leave an undesirable impression, IMO.


Bro, Tony Tan's F1 Altums do not have red eye rings. :D


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