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 Post subject: Re: tail fraying
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:03 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2016 9:19 pm
Posts: 7
Location: Australia
Hi Slobodan,

It happened to me on two occasions, both related. I don't know if fin frying and fin rot is the same but from
your photos look exactly like in my case.
In first instance my altums were only for two or three months in my tank when some of them start showing fins starting to rot. Quick check on Internet pointed me to use Melafix as cure for this problem. I hate to use any
drugs in my aquariums but I had no choice. I change 25% of water and applied Melafix. It slowed down progress
of fin rot but it didn't cure it. After period of time following instructions how to use Melafix I changed 40% of water.
Doing so I've noticed rotting smell in aquarium. Very quickly I realized that smell was coming from driftwood.
Two days later after removing it and water change fins started to heal.
In second instance it happened last month when I moved my Altums to new tank. Within several days all of them
got very mild fin rot. I knew that I had to check my driftwood again. It was very hard mangrove bush and very well weathered but had soft top layer of silvery dry rot.
I introduced two bristle nose catfish and they knew what to do. After few weeks driftwood was cleaned and Altums
recovered practically over night.
Altums don't like drastic changes of any sort. You should check your water change regime. Cloudy water is sign
that you are introducing some kind of food and minerals with it which creates bloom. It could be bacteria, infusoria who knows. Obviously your Altums don't feel good.
My suggestion is to smell your driftwood, clean it with high pressure water jet and change water ( 25% only RO water) and wait.

Mark

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 Post subject: Re: tail fraying
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:18 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 12:22 pm
Posts: 51
Location: Toronto, Canada
Hi Mark,

Thank you for your reply..
Will do as you suggested and let's see what happens.


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 Post subject: Re: tail fraying
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 7:26 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 12:22 pm
Posts: 51
Location: Toronto, Canada
O by the way Mark, your description of how it looks and how it happens is bang on. Thanks a lot for reply, gives me quite bit of confidence now...


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 Post subject: Re: tail fraying
PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:59 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 12:22 pm
Posts: 51
Location: Toronto, Canada
Hey guys,

I did try Mark's suggestion and right now everything is out of the aquarium other then Amazon sword, still battle with torn fins.. it's just not healing.. been fighting this since January..
I've tried Paraguard, polyguard and it seems like it stopped and got a bit better but it's coming back..
I'm really stumped here and not sure what to do anymore..
I'm doing Katapa leaves now and that's my last attempt before I find a veterinarian that is willing to send a sample to a lab for analysis.
Would appreciate any suggestions here..

Slobodan


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 Post subject: Re: tail fraying
PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:44 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:44 am
Posts: 39
I can not say if he will help but he helped me in many situations, including in the marine aquarium where I had a white velvet epidemic. I speak of hydrogen peroxide in the concentration of 0.3% (as sold in pharmacies) the dose is 40-70 ml / 100 l aquarium water. It's a powerful antibacterial so it should work , sure for plants (if you have) I do not guarantee


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 Post subject: Re: tail fraying
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:19 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 12:22 pm
Posts: 51
Location: Toronto, Canada
Thanks OceanG... I'll see how my katapa treatment goes and I might just try that.. how long do you do that treatment?


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 Post subject: Re: tail fraying
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 11:18 pm 
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Posts: 39
I did the treatment every other day, with water exchange before ~ ​​30%, watching to see not to disturb the fish, but mine did not show that. That until you see improvements


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 Post subject: Re: tail fraying
PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 6:08 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2014 8:30 am
Posts: 1
Why haven't you tried a real antibiotic.Fin rot is a bacterial infection.Furan 2 will work.


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 Post subject: Re: tail fraying
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:50 am 
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Posts: 51
Location: Toronto, Canada
hi blue lagun,

I did.. Did full treatment with kanaplex+Furan2 and it seem to slow things down but it always comes back.
Short of sending a specimen to a lab I'm at loss of what's going on.. and even that doesn't seem to be easy in Ontario,Canada..


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 Post subject: Re: tail fraying
PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 4:35 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:44 pm
Posts: 112
HI
I have dealt with this sort of fraying thing over the last three years that I grew up my now adults.
My experience is not universal but i still think it applies and so does the "treatment". IN my experience,fin rot/'fraying is just a water quality issue so forget about medical intervention of any kind.except for deworming....find the root cause which can be complex. Do this following stuff and you should find that it goes away:

1.Maintain good hygeine
2.Get those small bristlenosed plecos but get them deparasited first ( takes a month for sure).THey are not just good but may be essential.
3.Get the altums deparasited..it is important and parasites linger and add stress. ( takes a month ..three separate meds)
4.Redeparasite the plecos and the altums together ( another month).
During this time nothing will die but should improve.Then ureka!! you will get red eyes on the altums starting with one individual first. At that point you are "away". All Fraying and pectoral fin base growth disapears. Short pelvic fins and old damage heal and they become easy to keep. THe red eyes are your guide..but in adults.. young ones seem to have grey eyes.

Keep in mind that this is in adults..it is much harder to do with younger adult fish in "feedlot "situations.Ignore directions to raise the ph. Keep them permanently at 5 to under 6 .TDS not so important but about 100 is fine. and keep them at 30C. Feed only twice a day.

A Bit of a big deal but doable and worth the trouble


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 Post subject: Re: tail fraying
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:17 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2016 8:12 pm
Posts: 20
Location: Canada
I have exactly the same issue.Mine are looking good, healthy, eat aggressively, but the fins look bad.
I don't see any 'rot' on them, but they're definitely frayed:

https://youtu.be/UoG4imC5xsg

I've had them since Feb 2017. The real fraying started about 2 months ago.
No new fish was added to the tank since March this year, all properly quarantined/cleaned.
My guess is it's about water quality/stability.
I had quite a strong filtration, daily 10% water changes, 24/7 25W UV, but the bio load is huge (4 heavy feedings a day ), plus I have a number of bottom feeders. Since all of them are growing fast, especially Altums, I think the water quality started to deteriorate.

I'm going to remove all corydoras, half of the substrate (keep really thin layer) and remove most driftwood.
I'll probably plant the large Anubias into pots since substrate will not be deep enough.
Additionally, I'll setup my auto water change to 20% a day ( something I couldn't do during colder months ).
Will keep this setup running for a few months and see if it helps.


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 Post subject: Re: tail fraying
PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 7:23 am 
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Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Oleg_E wrote:
I have exactly the same issue.Mine are looking good, healthy, eat aggressively, but the fins look bad.
I don't see any 'rot' on them, but they're definitely frayed:

https://youtu.be/UoG4imC5xsg

I've had them since Feb 2017. The real fraying started about 2 months ago.
No new fish was added to the tank since March this year, all properly quarantined/cleaned.
My guess is it's about water quality/stability.
I had quite a strong filtration, daily 10% water changes, 24/7 25W UV, but the bio load is huge (4 heavy feedings a day ), plus I have a number of bottom feeders. Since all of them are growing fast, especially Altums, I think the water quality started to deteriorate.

I'm going to remove all corydoras, half of the substrate (keep really thin layer) and remove most driftwood.
I'll probably plant the large Anubias into pots since substrate will not be deep enough.
Additionally, I'll setup my auto water change to 20% a day ( something I couldn't do during colder months ).
Will keep this setup running for a few months and see if it helps.


Hi Oleg. To me it looks like a combination of a certain mineral deficiency exacerbated by some aggressiveness, maybe a little more of the latter. Have you seen them get really hyped up when eating?

Earlier I noticed their size and the size of your tank. I am keeping 5 in a 90 gallon, and they still fight, but they have just enough space to escape from one another when needed. I have another 6 in 150 gallons, and the same thing happens.

The other things your doing could help, but I personally think upping to 20% wc will be enough.

Still, if the fin damage is even in part, due to fighting, you might need to think of a bigger tank!

Ed

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 Post subject: Re: tail fraying
PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:53 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 12:22 pm
Posts: 51
Location: Toronto, Canada
Mine are looking exactly the same as Oleg's..
I'm seeing other people having even more altums in smaller aquarium with fins almost intact.. I guess that's not indication of anything..
I do 50% WC twice a week on 165 Gal of water column and 185 Gal of water column.. I'm running sumps..


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 Post subject: Re: tail fraying
PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 12:37 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2016 8:12 pm
Posts: 20
Location: Canada
Thank you for your comments.
Ed, I to your questions: I never really see them fighting ( well, they tend to chase Sturisomas, probably keeping them busy ). And even when they "fight", they just chase each other. I admit they might get injured from the driftwood, and I actually see scratches on their bodies sometimes which most probably caused by that, but they heal up really fast. The fin damage is way too symmetrical and shows up on all fins, so I guess it's either water quality or mineral deficiency as you suggested.

What can cause this mineral deficiency? Wrong diet? Or Wrong water parameters?
I'm not using RO at all, and our tap water is relatively soft ( 120ppm ).

I'm feeding them Frozen Mysis, Frozen brine shrimp and earth worms flakes.
I'm also feeding catfishes with earth worm and Spirulina sticks, and I guess they eat a little of that too.
Do you think earth worms flakes alone are not enough to supply all minerals/vitamins?

I make a picture, not the best quality, but you can clearly see the fins damage:


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 Post subject: Re: tail fraying
PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 12:52 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2016 8:12 pm
Posts: 20
Location: Canada
Here it goes:


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