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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 10:50 am 
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Location: sweden
can osmose water be too agressive for my altum or too oxidising?
They flash a lot but i am 100% sure it,s no gill flukes
I,ve tried an orp meter before i,ve had the same problem for a while now it was reading 500 mv then and that,s quite high as far as i know
anyone got a clue?


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 8:40 pm 
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In theory, pure RO will have 0 conductivity, 0 TDS and a standard neutral pH, so it is less "corrosive" than either acid or alkaline water.
This said, you will find the water product of your RO does not necessarily follow these rules because the source tap water may have added products that will alter these results. RO membranes does not remove 100% of dissolved products in the source water, they remove from 90% to 99% depending on the membrane type, be it low or high pressure and/or low or high output. Low pressure/high output membranes (i.e. Merlin and Evolution models) have removal rates on the lower end of this range.

STRAY VOLTAGE
Have you checked for stray voltage... a leaking heater... an insulation issue with a pump?
The stray voltage may be minimal but it will affect your fish and cause them to dart around the tank and be skittish.
Then, pure RO is poorly conductive, but any added mineral content, from your substrate, salt or from some medications, will increase TDS and EC. I have found, i.e. phosphate based pH decreasing products to increase conductivity and enhance stray voltage (if present) making the fish within water treated with these products stressed and skittish.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 1:21 pm 
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i think you ,re right Ed stray voltage from the t5 lights seemed to be the problem
installed a good old t8 and everything is ok again,i think i,ll go and see if i can find a nice led light

thanks!


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 3:15 am 
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it seems the problem is back the fish eat well
but still they flash and gasp
i thought it could be bad brine shrimp but i don,t think it,s possible
the funny thing is that it only happens with altum angelfish i had leopoldi before without any problems
so now i went down from feeding 4 times to 2 times a day
maybe that will help


also the fish seem to be flashing and gasping more after the light has gone on in the morning and when i get home from work they are doing fine.Very strange!Anybody got a clue?


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:34 pm 
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Hi Andries, I have seen similar symptoms with some of the Altum that I had in the past. I thought that it was down to my inconsistency in adding plant derived additives to the water. At one time I was boiling Oak Bark and leaves to make an additive and the fish usually reacted to the waterchange with the home made Oak Extract, especially if I had boiled the bark for too long when making it. Once I seriously overdid it and the fish went into what looked like Respiratory Distress, a swift seventy five percent waterchange relieved the situation. I have collected water running off Granite moorland peat, which had the most dramatic effect on the fish. They immediately started intense confrontation with head shaking, fin nipping and knocking scales off each other. They always did that a bit after feeding but it was far more intense after adding fifty percent of natural peat water. I was not in a position to continue experimenting with the natural water from Dartmoor as it is about 130 miles away and my wife detested the slopping noise from barrels of water in the back of the car.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 12:38 am 
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Phill Austen wrote:
Hi Andries, I have seen similar symptoms with some of the Altum that I had in the past. I thought that it was down to my inconsistency in adding plant derived additives to the water. At one time I was boiling Oak Bark and leaves to make an additive and the fish usually reacted to the waterchange with the home made Oak Extract, especially if I had boiled the bark for too long when making it. Once I seriously overdid it and the fish went into what looked like Respiratory Distress, a swift seventy five percent waterchange relieved the situation. I have collected water running off Granite moorland peat, which had the most dramatic effect on the fish. They immediately started intense confrontation with head shaking, fin nipping and knocking scales off each other. They always did that a bit after feeding but it was far more intense after adding fifty percent of natural peat water. I was not in a position to continue experimenting with the natural water from Dartmoor as it is about 130 miles away and my wife detested the slopping noise from barrels of water in the back of the car.




Thanks phil ,i haven,t had time to take a better look at the problem yet since i,m on vacation but this weekend i willl go through all posibilities step by step to see if it gets better

the first things i,ll change are
1,change my t5 lights to led lights
2 clean the bottom of the tank very well and take out most bogwood
since i noticed that some if it had become quite soft it could be rotting

that,s all for this weekend, it,s not smart to change too much cause then it will be hard to figure out what the problem was/is


next steps will be changing the way i do water changes and add peat to the new water and not having peat in the show tank filter,installing a 36 watt uv, if that doesn,t work it will be gill fluke meds,i,m also thinking about installing resin to remove nitrates and phosphates but that will also take away al the tannins in the water


then again maybe i,m lucky and they might be doing great when i come home if so it,s a matter of not doing too much water changes and use very aged water

in blehers discus book 3 there,s an italian guy who does water changes every 10/15 day because he noticed the altum like aged water more,maybe that works for me as well
i,ll keep you updated


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 12:24 am 
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hi

Got home yesterday and the fish are doing very well ,no gasping twitching etc at all.
Maybe it,s true like they wrote in blehers discus book that they prefer old water.
Almost no nitrates after 14 days without a water change.

I did one water change now and still no gasping scratching,
the only thing they do is stand in front of my eheim 2080 output wich is on the bottom .
They eat very well.

So maybe i WAS lucky but i,m going to change lights anyway today from t5 to led.I,ll leave the bogwood for now cause the fish are doing ok.
After that i,ll wait and see what happens and hope it stays like this,ill keep you updated and i,ll post a film later today.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2014 8:55 am 
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a small film ,still doing fine

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Elr69cp ... E7iE30PzeQ


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 4:59 am 
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Hi Andries,

Your guys look good.

I generally do not post since I am such a novice with altums but have kept wild discus for several years now. Do you happen to age your RO water with aeration? I find that when I do age my RO water I do get a slight difference in TDS and ph between my un-aged and aged RO water. If you do not age your RO water you might consider trying it.

Regards,
Pat

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 10:23 pm 
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Second Hand Pat wrote:
Hi Andries,

Your guys look good.

I generally do not post since I am such a novice with altums but have kept wild discus for several years now. Do you happen to age your RO water with aeration? I find that when I do age my RO water I do get a slight difference in TDS and ph between my un-aged and aged RO water. If you do not age your RO water you might consider trying it.

Regards,
Pat


Hi
i always use a powerhead for at least 2 days in my ro water before i do a water change.

regards
andre


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 4:28 am 
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Andries wrote:
Second Hand Pat wrote:
Hi Andries,

Your guys look good.

I generally do not post since I am such a novice with altums but have kept wild discus for several years now. Do you happen to age your RO water with aeration? I find that when I do age my RO water I do get a slight difference in TDS and ph between my un-aged and aged RO water. If you do not age your RO water you might consider trying it.

Regards,
Pat


Hi
i always use a powerhead for at least 2 days in my ro water before i do a water change.

regards
andre


Hi Andre, I find I need to add an airstone to my RO water to truly age the water. Just a thought.
Pat

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 4:56 am 
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Second Hand Pat wrote:
Andries wrote:
Second Hand Pat wrote:
Hi Andries,

Your guys look good.

I generally do not post since I am such a novice with altums but have kept wild discus for several years now. Do you happen to age your RO water with aeration? I find that when I do age my RO water I do get a slight difference in TDS and ph between my un-aged and aged RO water. If you do not age your RO water you might consider trying it.

Regards,
Pat


Hi
i always use a powerhead for at least 2 days in my ro water before i do a water change.

regards
andre


Hi Andre, I find I need to add an airstone to my RO water to truly age the water. Just a thought.
Pat



Hello
yes i thought about that i,m going to try it an see what happens.

andre


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 3:55 am 
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it turned out that the bogwood i had in the tank was rotting ,i took it all out and things got better right away
and now i,m aging the water with an airstone ,it works fine ,the fish are swimming around much more

i,ll come back with an update


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 8:07 pm 
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You can always choose good quality "true" hardwood branches that will not rot or will last in the water for many years.

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