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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 12:57 am 
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Location: Czech republic
Hi friends,

times are go by far and not only in North America will be possibility to make DNA codes with fishes. Too much from you can be make it in somewhere institut in next near times now. I have one thought, why we don´t make our own DNA databaze of Pterophyllum?
Yesterday called me my friend from Veterinary University in Brno and said me, that near by University in Zoological institut they have be all for decoding DNA in this year. It opening any possibility also for us, but my friend who are profesor there have good knowns in this institut and he said me that I have be all door opening.
Dave wrote here, that in US and Canada it possible for any few dollars.
...and what we need more? I think that only little piece from fin we can be take without any harm by they or if any poor fish will be die. It´s opening new possibility for too much questions for us.
I have approach to several populations of wild fishes, who were came to CR in several few years from Amazonia (it´s too damage, that I don´t know perfect from what places they came) - so three wild types scalare, Manacapuru, Peru altum, one line of fourstriped who came from nature before twenty years and never by crossing, too much all from breeder´s forms. From altums (imports and Linke´s line) and one type leopoldis from any (?) place in Brazilia.

Yes, I know that this is run on long way also, but it can be helping us moving further opening any from secrets for us? :)
What your opinions, please?

Jan


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 5:13 am 
Sensored by Carla. Adult link!


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 10:00 am 
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Location: Toronto Canada
thanks to the timely reminder, Jan, I found your post again.

I'm starting to realize that this is an excellent science project for schools and I'm going to see if my kid's school would consider it. Imagine if a known species were sent in and it became split into 5 species ! They could get the school name in the latin binomial if the science-juggling powers-that-be were generous.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 11:24 am 
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Location: Toronto Canada
we're on the brink now, Jan. We have it less than month for all three accepted species, as far as I can tell.

D


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 6:57 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2004 10:39 pm
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Location: Toronto Canada
maybe slightly more than a month...but it's gettin there : )

I noticed Izeni is working on the usefulness fo ba4rcoding to study the stingrays
Quote:
Toffoli, D.*, T. Hrbek, M. L. G. de Araújo, M. P. de Almeida, P. Charvet-Almeida and I. P. Farias. 2007. A test of the utility of DNA barcoding in the radiation of the freshwater stingray genus Potamotrygon (Potamotrygonidae


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 10:23 am 
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Location: San Jose,CA,USA
if people in the USA are willing to snip a small part of fins of their angelfish i am willing to isolate DNA and probably do some crude RAPD analysis...


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:23 pm 
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Hey, that would be something great.

what specific investigative strengths do you feel this test has ?


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 8:55 am 
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Location: San Jose,CA,USA
rag wrote:
Hey, that would be something great.

what specific investigative strengths do you feel this test has ?


if people actually knew how to dissect the testis out of their angelfish cadavers i think it would be better to do a rtPCR of mRNAS in the testis and do a RAPD of all the cDNAs made from the testis pool. my lab's studies on some testis-specific genes show that they rapidly evolve as opposed to generally-expressed genes in dipterans.

here's a short primer on RAPD analysis:

http://avery.rutgers.edu/WSSP/StudentSc ... /rapd.html


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 8:28 am 
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I would be interested ( live in Canada, but shipping should not be a problem).
How many samples all together, would be a reasonable target number, in order to compare ?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 11:42 am 
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Location: San Jose,CA,USA
minimum of 10 per "species" but the more the better. but to do a pilot study 3 of orinoco altum, 3 of rio negro angels and 3 domesticated scalare would be a good start. remember we dont need to sacrifice the fish but just snip a portion of the fin and freeze it.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 5:15 pm 
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I have a fish or two that have some deformed fins ( regrowth after disease or injury or degeneration ), that I was considering clipping them anyway in order to try for a better regrowth.

I'm pretty sure that even right now we can also still get some numbers of samples from the unlucky ones in the last of this season's imports.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 9:40 am 
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Should I ask some people to clip their dead altum fins ? The window for the season's available imports might be closing soon.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 3:32 pm 
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Let me know Dave if you need one. I have a approx. 5 year old altum in the freezer that suddenly passed on about 15 months ago.
If it helps you any.

...Ralph

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 10:30 am 
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Hi,

just a fast warning for DNA-samples: If you are not 100% sure of the exact location of collecting (ir from imports you will hardly ever know), there is no (or extreme little) use of doing DNAs. It has shown errors with many misleading locations in many species and therefore made the understanding of the species (separation) even wors, than improved it.

Also remember in the upper Orinoco live at least 3 very different P. altum populations (very different) and in the Rio Negro at least 4 complete different angelfish forms (shown in DISCUSBOOK01 - all of it).

Best regards from one who collects,

Heiko Bleher
www.aquapress-bleher.com


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 2:48 pm 
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Heiko Bleher wrote:
Hi,

just a fast warning for DNA-samples: If you are not 100% sure of the exact location of collecting (ir from imports you will hardly ever know), there is no (or extreme little) use of doing DNAs. It has shown errors with many misleading locations in many species and therefore made the understanding of the species (separation) even wors, than improved it.

Also remember in the upper Orinoco live at least 3 very different P. altum populations (very different) and in the Rio Negro at least 4 complete different angelfish forms (shown in DISCUSBOOK01 - all of it).

Best regards from one who collects,

Heiko Bleher
www.aquapress-bleher.com


Hello Heiko,

Could these 3 different P. altum populations you mentioned explain why there are variations to how altums appear in the trade and on finarama?

If you have experienced collecting all three, could you kindly describe the differences you see between the 3 phenotypically?

Best,

Dennis


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