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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 1:47 pm 
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I came across this mention of a paper published in Nature on the on-line NYT.
The authors say we and all non fish may have descended from an electric fish.
here is the NYT article. Shocking if true.:)
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/19/opini ... ef=opinion

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 6:19 pm 
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2002
http://www.marine.uq.edu.au/publication ... siolDW.pdf

1983

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6839350

... don't get burned; develop a resistance to the high voltage current events blurbs coming down the wire...even meditation might help...repeat the mantra

"Ohm"

http://books.google.ca/books?id=ByL0XT6 ... on&f=false


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:00 am 
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apistomaster wrote:
I came across this mention of a paper published in Nature on the on-line NYT.
The authors say we and all non fish may have descended from an electric fish.
here is the NYT article. Shocking if true.:)
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/19/opini ... ef=opinion
But we are a kind of fish. We're Sarcopterygians.

Quote:
The Sarcopterygii are the lobe-finned fish and the tetrapods. The name Sarcopterygii (or sometimes Crossopterygii) used to refer only to the fish members of the group, but since it has become clear that the Tetrapoda evolved from sarcopterygian fish, the definition of the group has been expanded.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcopterygii


Quote:
    Subclass Sarcopterygii
    Order Dipnoi
    Infraclass Crossopterygii
    †Order Porolepiformes
    †Order Onychodontida
    Order Actinistia
    Infraclass Tetrapodomorpha
    †Order Rhizodontida
    Superorder Osteolepidida
    †Order Osteolepiformes
    †Family Tristichopteridae
    †Order Panderichthyida
    Superclass Tetrapoda






Last edited by rag on Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:08 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:04 am 
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http://tolweb.org/Sarcopterygii/14922


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:23 am 
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I think most of us who believe in evolution also accept that lobe finned fishes were the transitional phase between fish. amphibians and so on.
Since I haven't seen the article in Nature I can only speculate but my guess is that the electric fishes organs and biochemistry were simply repurposed as electrochemical abilities into more complex abilities, senses and possibly more brain power.
\

In general evolution seems to continuously change existing structures to different ones while retaining a fundamental similarity. An example is scales becoming feathers or nails. All are made of keratin.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 10:13 am 
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True. The study was on ray-finned fish. Actinopterygians.
Nature:

Quote:
Here we show morphological and molecular data describing lateral line system development in the basal ray-finned fish Polyodon spathula


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 10:21 am 
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Neil Shubin presented the interesting idea of "conservation of the ancient traits" in an usual way, in his book "Your Inner Fish".

He noted the similarity of the way the brains and neurons work despite massive difference and distance between fish and human.


http://books.google.ca/books?id=c008kdN ... &q&f=false

the spinning world of a drunk and the fish water flow sensing result from the same evolutionary beginnings.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 11:38 am 
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That idea, the conservation of traits, as living things evolve, was how I took the meaning of the article about evolving from electric fish.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:53 pm 
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Me too. I took it that way. but it's old hat.

BTW ...no non-fish descended from a fish - just as none of the invertebrates descended from a vertebrate and no non-mammals came from a mammal.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 4:16 pm 
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rag wrote:
Me too. I took it that way. but it's old hat.

BTW ...no non-fish descended from a fish - just as none of the invertebrates descended from a vertebrate and no non-mammals came from a mammal.


I must have inferred that others who believe in evolution understand that it is a progressive process with intermediate creatures which may or may not have left any fossil record or else I do not understand what your point is.
Many if not the majority of branches in the phylogenetic tree lead to dead ends. Some few do survive and change over the eons.

You can't un-fry an egg or reconstitute a smoked cigarette or joint from the ashes. I throw this in to follow up what to me was your non sequitur with one of my own.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 6:25 pm 
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apistomaster wrote:
The authors say we and all non fish may have descended from an electric fish.
This is why I said that no non-fish evolved from fish. All things coming from fish were ( and are ) fish, so every non fish came from ancestral non-fish.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 7:00 pm 
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I just failed to dissect my comments enough to see what you were latching on.
Now I see.
I don't have anything more to add.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:39 pm 
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I said:
Quote:
He noted the similarity of the way the brains and neurons work despite massive difference and distance between fish and human.
whereas I should have said "He noted the similarity of the way the brains and neurons work despite massive difference and distance between *that ancestral fish" and human ( descendent fish).


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 10:25 pm 
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re: Did we descend from an electric fish?

Dave (Rag) did.

Ed

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 4:18 am 
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puertoayacucho wrote:
re: Did we descend from an electric fish?

Dave (Rag) did.

Ed
With all faculties intact ( just minus the 'lectric ones)


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