puertoayacucho wrote:Nobody will convince me that the Tapajos fish in the styro box, as well as all above shown in the thread and those identified as St Isabels on the Hustinx website are not the same fish, possibly even the same batch. These are what I understand as Tapajos.
I think these fish are different from those Paolo has, the original St Isabels.
I will ask Paolo to pitch in and make a comparison with his own.
P.D. "Original St Isabels?" Figure it out, I'm going for some Tylenol.
Hi Ed, Yes they are likely the same batch.
Date of Hustinx Sta Isabel batch import, June 2009
Date of Hudsonâ€™s Tapajos angelfish shown in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rq57yLAEixA
, June 2009
If one is to base the location origin of these angelfish from the body shape and size, would they be Rio Negro or Amazon River?
Below, the Altum on the left and the Sta Isabel or Tapajos on the right basically have the same body shape.
Supposing the angel in question is indeed Tapajos-where the type species of the area is scalare, it is very intriguing that the body shape is very altum.
How did this come about?
Paolo Piccinelli wrote:
In my opinion the specimens of the first and second picture are much more "scalare like" than the S.Isabel "altums" I owned.
I see bigger scales and the red spots are bigger; also the back colour is brilliant red, while in my S. Isabel the colour was dark, bloody red.
The fishes in the box are difficult to evaluate... pale colours due to stress make it difficult.
Once more I agree with Ed, I identify both Hustinx and these specimens to be different from S.Isabel I owned.
Hi Paolo, comparing the scales of the two angels in the above and below photos, they look the same size, imo. The body shape of these two angels below are
even more similar than those in the photo above. The Tapajos or Sta Isabel in the photo above and below, is one and the same angel.
Jeff Kubina's original altum photo: http://www.flickr.com/photos/kubina/131 ... 112156297/ http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/
The Altum shown above has red fins, similar to the Hudson Tapajos and Hustinx Sta Isabel.
Given the altum above with red fins, and with altums having red spots on the back isn't it more plausible that the angel in question is Sta Isabel (and not Tapajos)
which got its body shape/size and color from the gene flow coming from
puertoayacucho wrote:Hi Ken. P. altum is found down through the Cassiquiare and into the Rio Negro watershed and the Uppermost Rio Negro.
and gene flow continuing into the Amazon ...by chance reaching Tapajos?
Carotenoids are used up by the immune system to fight stress. resulting in the loss of red/orange color in varying degrees as shown below
Hudson H&K wrote:
Thank you friends.....
see the new angel fish pictures , i think now the red color is comeback again.
These angels above have almost no more color as compared to recently caught one below.
Some tapajos angel fish , see the orange and red color in this type
Although the angelfish variants Sta Isabel and Tapajos are being discussed, the topic of this thread is really about the effect of extreme drought, and
might as well add flash flooding, to the gene flow of angelfish variants/populations from the different upstream tributaries down to the Amazon River.
Heiko was concerned about the effect of the drought on the Rio Jutai. If the Jutai angels do not migrate down with the receding waters and enter the main
Amazon river then this variant could be lost but if some have been forced to migrate down, then they are now part of the angel population in the main Amazon river.
What is the "cline" in relation to Altum and Scalare as two separate species?
I now have wild X domestic angels that are 75% Rio Negro, (assuming the father is Sta Isabel and not Tapajos). The mother is a Rio Negro x Blue (pb/pb) domestic
(My friend Neil Oyama has one blue (not pb/pb) wild, almost the whole body is steel blue. He also has one that is steel green almost the whole body).
The majority now have the high bodies. The 50% RNegro did not have high bodies like the 75% RN. There is a "cline" here at the hatchery.