It is currently Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:22 pm
 

 

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 26 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2010 6:02 pm 
Offline
Administrator

Joined: Sat May 09, 2009 12:49 am
Posts: 469
Location: Las Vegas,NV
They really are cruel to each other. No individual is immune or overly harassed. None of them have even remotely nice finnage anymore. This behavior started a couple of months ago. It gets to the point where they are all showing the opercula spot and bold black stripes. ALL 12 INDIVIDUALS. They are around 3 inches from the nose to the base of the tail. They are probably around a year old now. I have had them for 10 months. I have a 36 watt UV and the tank is a 120. I know its a little cramped for 12 altum but Dennis(Califish) has 10 and has no behavioral problems. He doesn't use a sterilizer or feed as heavily as I do. I spend quite a bit of time watching them every day and its my belief that they fight because they feel good. The fin damage seems permanent. Which I am ok with as long as I am not endangering their overall health. Please I would like some input from all of the other altum keepers here.

Mike


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2010 6:06 pm 
Offline
Administrator

Joined: Sat May 09, 2009 12:49 am
Posts: 469
Location: Las Vegas,NV
More pictures.


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2010 6:20 pm 
Offline
Founder
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2003 6:37 pm
Posts: 560
Location: Reno
Hi Mike, the fin damage will repair itself in time once the activity slows down. For the age of the altum, 12 in a 120 shouldn't be too bad. It sounds to me like pairs are forming. Have you noticed any two fish sticking to one another? It is hard to say what is going on in there. Could you post a photo of your entire aquarium? It might give us more clues.

atb,
Michelle


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2010 8:39 pm 
Offline
Registration Administrator

Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 1:56 pm
Posts: 1234
Location: Bishop's Waltham UK
Hello Mike, your experience with Altum mirrors mine, this is what they do. I found that a larger group diffused the victimisation of one or two individuals, but any ammount of removing or replacing fish did nothing to stop it. As you suggest they seem to go in for a bout of "knocking lumps off each other" (usually in my case, just after a good meal) just because they are feeling good. It would be my guess that it is part of the pairing process and possibly to do with the sex ratio of the group as a whole (which of course we have no way of determining).
Regards,
Phill.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2010 8:55 pm 
Offline
Founder
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2003 6:37 pm
Posts: 560
Location: Reno
oops...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2010 10:54 pm 
Offline
Administrator

Joined: Sat May 09, 2009 12:49 am
Posts: 469
Location: Las Vegas,NV
Michelle,Phil thanks for the replies. Phil they are fed extremely well and yes that's when most of the sparring activity occurs is just after feeding. Although they fight all day. Good to know you have experienced similar if not the same behavior.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 12:07 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2008 12:16 am
Posts: 119
Location: Singapore
Hi Mike, now I know what you mean by tearing each other apart! Strange but I've not witnessed such behaviour in my 10 altums, except during the first meal that I fed them!

Nowadays they will push each other around and that's about it!

Hi Phill, is your tank size the same as Mike's?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 12:56 am 
Offline
Administrator

Joined: Sat May 09, 2009 12:49 am
Posts: 469
Location: Las Vegas,NV
I will get a video of the behavior in the next day or so. I think the behavior is intensified by the lack of space but I wont know for sure until I get them a larger aquarium.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 7:01 am 
Offline
Founder
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2003 6:37 pm
Posts: 560
Location: Reno
I wrote Mike a bit last night in pm and mentioned that I thought it was due to them having a very good diet. I was able to see his aquarium in a video and it is a 120 tall, not a 120 long. This significantly shortens the amount of space for the fish. I also gave him my thoughts on what a good diet does for fish like altum. The behavior associated with with a good diet and what it promotes (not just healthy fish, but the mental state of mind of the fish as well) and the possible chemical releases a good diet would cause. But I am not as good at explaining that as some of you would be.

Michelle


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 12:48 pm 
Offline
Administrator

Joined: Sat May 09, 2009 12:49 am
Posts: 469
Location: Las Vegas,NV
I thought you explained it rather well :D .


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 6:34 am 
Offline
Founder
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2003 6:37 pm
Posts: 560
Location: Reno
Hi Mike, thanks, but I really am not good at the technical aspect of diet. I love to hear others who are very well versed at explaining it in scientific terms.

Anyhow, and I hope you don't mind, I thought this would be the best topic to share my video of altum lip locking (rather than starting a new topic). You can clearly see that one altum's dorsal is nearly shredded, plus... his right eye has been injured. This fish did recover after they were put in a much larger tank. I almost wish I had kept them together in the QT tank just to see what would have happened. I have only three videos and a few pictures to share and though everyone might enjoy seeing them. Sorry... I am not the best photographer.

atb,
Michelle

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-GBncF1f24
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIUyN4s8zjw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZ0sKBNVV_4


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 12:38 am 
Offline
Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2005 3:21 am
Posts: 4243
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
This is normal Mike, I had my 12 in a 120 (48X24X24) until February of this year. One jumped out and now I have 11.
They were always tearing their fins apart. One of the fish was so victimized they worked him down to the very stumps of his anal, dorsal and ventrals, to the point it had trouble to swim. But he recovered in about two months time with no help or isolation required. This was the one that jumped later on, after he had fully recovered.
As of February I put them in a 150G, 48X24X32 (High), I feel the height in this new tank has helped them. The fins are becoming very long and there is a lot less shredding...but still some.
Ed

_________________
God listens. He may not always give you everything you want, when you want it; but he always gives you what you really need, when you need it most!
E.R.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 2:45 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:18 am
Posts: 34
turn off light works for me. Only turn on light at night seems helps some.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 9:11 pm 
Offline
Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2005 11:27 pm
Posts: 439
Location: Las Vegas
Hi Mike,

That's a rowdy group of altums you're keeping! Are they modeling after their owner bc mine are pretty civil to each other... heheh just kidding.

Your tank is a bit larger than mine, so I don't think lack of space is an issue at all. Could it be diet-related or water? Mine are strictly on Hikari FBWs now - I feed up to 10+ cubes a day for my 10 altums and 2 scalares, and really nothing else. They were eating predominantly Colorbits before, but I changed it after they started to show this "coughing" type reaction whenever I drop the food in.... and now they're so spoiled again on Frozen food they won't touch dry at all.

The altums chase each other and the pecking order is pretty size dependent, while the scalares are much more aggressive toward one another and would rip fins and show marks; they also occasionally chase the altums around. I have not seen the altums show aggression towards the scalares. The scalares have also killed all the male guppies and all my rummy nose tetras; they usually eat their heads and leave the rest alone.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 9:47 pm 
Offline
Administrator

Joined: Sat May 09, 2009 12:49 am
Posts: 469
Location: Las Vegas,NV
The only difference I can think of is that I'm running a 36w 12X coralife sterilizer on the tank. I'm also running 2 fluval 404's with spray bars. With the sterilizer and the spray bars there is probably a lot more dissolved oxygen. Our water is probably identical in every other respect and so is their diet. That's what really boggles my mind is seeing yours and how nice they are to each other!!!???


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 26 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group

 

 
 

Species Identification Guide


Domestic Angelfish Genetics


Angelfish Chronicles


Members Galleries


 
Contact: Forum Administration
E-mail: info@finarama.com
Finarama.com
Dedicated to further understanding the Genus Pterophyllum