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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 3:16 am 
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Hi friends,
if we had here in CR two first attempts for angelfishes competitions, we saw, that it´s need make be some serious regular notes for these championships. After too much consultations with experts over livebearers, bettas, discus and killfishes competitions and their judges and breeders I was with help from my some friends wrote and made in end of last year and beginning of this year first manual for giving championships. At first it were given on AQUATAB (Ichtyological sites) sites in Czech language and in we´re preparing be is versions with German and English languages for possibilities of all aquarists. If I´ll be have English version also, I´ll be give it self-evident here to FINARAMA. Here is for your first informations that Czech language version.
http://aquatab.net/clanky/propozice-a-s ... hyllum.htm
How straightaway I´ll be have press monography about angels, these standards and propositions will be switch through other chapter about breeder´s forms new system, where will be also new color paintings of ideal standards (it´s last work on my book - these paintings, what I´m make now).
Down is small show of some it.

Jan


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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 10:32 am 
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Exquisite artwork Jan, will you produce an English Language edition of your book?
Phill.


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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 11:14 am 
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Yes Phill. How will be out Czech issue and I´ll be have out my cares with it, I´ll be beginning translate it to English. I was think at first, that it could be possible press by TFH some time in future. But from time what departed out of there Mr. Kolbenschlag, I got idea make English version also by my side as own press - same as Czech issue. I can let make more series, how will be interests from people. Whole monography have be around 300 pages in B5 format. I have prepare more than 400 color photos, 40 paints, some maps and black&white pendrawings (yes - same as are in "Standards...").

Jan

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 4:47 am 
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Hi friends,
here only for your small information. I have finished English version of "Standards and directions for hosting of competitions for fish of genus Pterophyllum" now. How do you know, in "my own Eglish style". Some friends, who have English as nation language now making on really good and serious corrections. I´ll be hope, that it´s be done in near time and after it I be give it here also, whole.

Jan

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 10:58 am 
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Looking forward to it Jan!

Don


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 2:12 pm 
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I think the artwork is fantastic, too. Great work Jan.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 10:01 pm 
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If time didn´t so much perfect for searching sponsors for press of book earlier, now is situation for more hardly. But I´m believing, that it´ll be possible. One thing it´s sure, I must depart from B5 and good hard binder and going let make it into A5 in paperback now. :?
I´m decided Dave, that if in prepared monography don´t be sufficiency of place for it, that I´ll be cast off also all paintworks of ideals forms for electronic´s publication of standards here for Finarama and TAWF.

Jan

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 9:02 pm 
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I hope both can happen Jan because the paintings and your knowledge sure do merit it IMO...plus I'd like to have a monography for damn sure! :)


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 7:01 am 
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Hello Jan

I have read your standards with great interest. Excelent work :)
Have this propositions been approoved by other countries?

Is there any place that I can read standard for P.altum and P.leopoldi?

What should be eye colour in those two?

I am confused. The polish standard says it must be red, but I don't see many altums or leopoldi with red eyes.
Also in our standard it says, that ratio beetwen body and dorsal and anal fin should be 1:1:1. But if you look at the scalare, it isn't so. Dorsal fin is shorter. I remember, when Heiko was at our Discus championship show, he had a lecture and he said, that ONLY altums have fins as long and of equal lenght as the size of their body.
Another thing is that, You have 4 groups in "wild" category, which means scalare like "peru altum" fit into that. Men who wrote the standard for our show places them as "leopoldi". I have read here on this forum, that in Belgium and Holland is the same. It is sooooooooo confusing :roll:

It is time to set international standard

check this link http://pkmd.pl/pl/aktualnosci-z-zycia-p ... 29-31i2010

standard is there in polish but I am sure you can understand

Barbara

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 12:04 pm 
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Hi Barbara.

1) I didn´t comprehended, what do you think all in your first question. Our standards are free for everybody and for it it´s approachable for download on our "angel´s sites".

2) a. These standards may be so much easy. Why make some special standards for species, what are described very good in their own originally describes and these describes are full accessible?
b. Yes, OK. It tied also with chapters about these fishes in my monograph, what be printing in beginning of next year (Czech language. English in later times).

3. It´s relative easy. We know good, that scalare have clear red eyes, leopoldi have ochre - yellow eyes, altum have grey /uncolor/ eyes with small raspberry flecks and all known undescribed species, where isn´t sure, if they´re scalares or some new fishes are eyes also red.

4) At us in our Autumn´s "Botanical Garden" in September this year had Heiko his perfect lecture about wild angels. Yes. He know very good much things about these wild populations in nature, but he hadn´t some free times make study these all fishes more years in tanks. Or not?
I have one my own proverb about this great fishman: " If he is my first "Amazonian Guru", he isn´t God and only God know all".

If I began at Heiko´s Czech lecture, I must remember on his hypotheses about possibility in more than no three or four, but more possible good species of angels, what are living in Amazonia. Yes, very right. I agree with him in all cases.
If did you had interests and knowledges about awake of "Peru - altum" forms and their arrival into middle Europe, you must remember for end of 80´s, where were came two different forms of angels from Peru. Both had same name as "Peru - altum". First of them (they were came into Czech Republic from NDR) were new fishes and some from German´s aquarists gave them also name as P.sp. "Red Spotted" (from Peru), P.scalare "Red Spotted" and also P.sp. or P.scalare "Peru-altum". But in same time were came from NDR also new natural population of very nice and more colored than classical Brasilian scalares also from Peru - they were also called as "Peru-altum".

About first form we knew, that they were hunted in Nanay river and about second form - in some place on Amazona near by Iquitos. If first form with nice pink-red flecks were more difficult fishes for spawning, second form were easy to spawning. Much of breeders no only at us were spawned them and these fishes were traded on fish market as "Peru-altum". So came power of International market, what gave this popular name into second form. For better communication we were must began resolved both forms for so much serious names. That second form, what were made in too much thousands pieces for all world, stay name as "Peru - altum" and first rare form got better name after river where they´re live - "Nanay".
If do you look on this first form so much good, do you must see there more differences from classic lines of scalares. There may be it, that these fishes could be some special local form from scalare, but there also may be way, that they´re really some new specie. So after it we see so much serious way, call them as Pterophyllum species "Nanay" - P.sp. "Nanay" and into that time, than some qualify take be them and make some good work about them and declaring them, anyplace they belong.

And also Heiko in Prague was talk about more than six good species of angelfish. I agree with him and for it also we were constitued more than three groups of wild types. (Differences between four types are in drawing fishes in standards there).
So are our Directions prepare and open for all possible new species, what can be discover sometime in next times also.

************************************

And about "standards" what you have in your sites. I know it from first instants, when these prescriptions were began. I know, who wrote it and know this aquarist very good. I was one from first international judge´s team in 2006, when we got it and really we were got shock from it. He, who was wrote it, is very good man and I never telling his name, but he isn´t Angelfish expert and if he was wrote it, he had at first knowledges more than twenty years old and at second, he was very hard ill in same time (in Prague 2006 he didn´t been, because he was ended in hospital). It all had share on whole his work, what no only me but also sundry od judges called as full diletant work what have too much far way from facts.

We negotiated in these time on it, that in together work we must make really serious competition directions and H.Linke said to take my old Breeder´s forms system as main guidelines for this new work. In these times I and also two Czech judges were made our drafts about it, what had Dr. Bydžovsky or Mr.Kolín translate into German language and sent to H.Linke. If we gave our drafts to both men, more than one year we gotn´t some answer. If we didn´t know, if whatsoever somebody sent it to Germany.

If came end of 2007 year, came behind me some experts from Czech Discus Association and also some people from other aquaristic groups, who want to take things into our hands and make be new and really serious directions for some possible competitions. So I gave altogether team, where were experts for Discus, Livebearers, Bettas and also Killfishes Internatinal Championships and over December (2007) to Februar (2008) we made our Standards and Directions what were leaned about newest knowledges from Nature and also my new Breeder´s forms system, what I was just finished.

If I was met in end of Februar 2008 on one aquaristic action Mr. Kolín, I was said him about it and offered this new for use. After one week came answer, that he whatsoever misunderstand, about what it is........... In his second action - first action in Česká Lípa (2008) - he let him all judgement after these primitive directions. If do you saw it there, you must see, that there didn´t been more Czech breeders. Yes. Our people know good as is Mr. Kolin connoisseur and gaven´t their fishes there. How is he serious man, had possibility knew also Heiko Bleher, what do you could seen on some World discussions this Summer ........... How level have actions in Prague´s Botanical Garden you can see in Heiko Bleher´s articles in his sites or in new article from F.Denito in new TFH issue also.

Now, after AKVÃ

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 12:44 pm 
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Small display.

Here are some pictures with eyes P.altum, P.leopoldi and P.scalare


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 12:46 pm 
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Here are eyes from three types of "Nanay" fishes (first type is known "Red Spotted" type).


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 12:50 pm 
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Surely the Altum has red in the rear half of the eye when it is feelin good and interacting socially. At least the fish that I know as P. Altum has. Many of Forkel's photos show this http://www.skalarezucht.de/ I think it would be wrong to mark an Altum down on the showbench for showing red in the eye. Some years ago I showed Altum, mainly to enable folk to see the adult fish, and by benching two fish next to each other they would often display the red in the eye and the mood spot on the operculum.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 12:54 pm 
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With length of dorsal and anal fins is similar as with red tones on head and fishback. It all depend on momentary environments where they live. If fishes are living in tanks, they don´t need their long fins so much and in every month over their age are length of their fins shorter. Young fishes have more length fins than height of their body ..... etc.

Length of Peru-altum scalares fins.
1) three months old fish
2) two year old fish in one environment (low tank and soft black water)
3) two year old fish (from same spawn) in high tank without humins


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 12:56 pm 
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Length of altum fins - Linke´s line.
1) two months old fishes - F3
2) seven/eight months old fishes - F3
3) four years old parental fishes - F2
4) six years old parental fish - F1


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