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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 7:28 am 
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Which should I go for? I can get them on sale today, so today would be the day to jump on them. I would be looking at the Coralife TurboTwist models. I've got a 9 watter under the stand but should probably up the size for the bigger filters.

The 18 watters would fit better but the 36 watters would be better for control for the higher flow rate filters I have. May be a really tight fit to stuff 2 under the stand as well.

Craig


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 11:35 am 
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Funny, it seems my reply did not post... guess I didn't hit the button.

You're hitting the nail just right when you point out using your UV's to slow down the flow rate on your fat boys. Two of them in your tank and you need to slow them down or you'll end up with your Altum looking like postcards adorning the inside of your tank. Most likely you still might need the ball valves.

I had my 36W resting just atop the canister lid strapped to the pump with custom cut velcro straps. I took off the pump cover so the UV rested directly on the canister lid.

I used to have a 2217 in addition to the 2260 on my 150G but since I only have the 2260 on it right now and the slow down caused by the inline UV unit was considerable, I took the UV offline and run it with a dedicated 175G powerhead. The 2260 is free of any "intentional obstruction" but is equipped with a ball valve. It really churns things up nicely.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 11:38 am 
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Well, after your tank is well cycled, I see no problem is putting either selection (18 or 36w) in. I think the more, the better, it's quite an investment you are doing for your altum and you know how delicate they can be.
Ed

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 11:41 am 
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puertoayacucho wrote:
Well, after your tank is well cycled, I see no problem is putting either selection (18 or 36w) in. I think the more, the better, it's quite an investment you are doing for your altum and you know how delicate they can be.
Ed


I'm building this tank for a long term grow out so I do tend to go a bit over board but when I look at taking a fish from its natural habitat I feel they should get the best. I think the dual 36 watters should suffice and not cut flow too much but I do have tons of flow to work with as well.

Craig


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 12:10 pm 
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I talked to one of the stores selling aquarium equipment today...As far as UV wattage, he made the point that 9W in the Coralife Turbo would work for my 90 gal...He said that more than that going slowly may actually harm the beneficial bacteria...That unit goes up to 130 gal...

DOES THIS MAKE SENSE?...opinion? Ken


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:17 pm 
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I run a coralife turbotwist 36w on my 120. No evidence that larger UV kills beneficial bacteria. Most of your beneficial bacteria is going to reside in your canister filter. The UV is only going to kill free floating bacteria in the water column.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:37 pm 
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craigthor wrote:
Which should I go for? I can get them on sale today, so today would be the day to jump on them. I would be looking at the Coralife TurboTwist models. I've got a 9 watter under the stand but should probably up the size for the bigger filters.

The 18 watters would fit better but the 36 watters would be better for control for the higher flow rate filters I have. May be a really tight fit to stuff 2 under the stand as well.

Craig


Craig,
I didn't realize this was your thread. I would go with the 36w. Especially if your are going to keep the flow rates high. How big is the tank?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:39 pm 
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UV only kills waterborne bacteria and your nitrobacs colonize substrates.. of course you cannot have your UV on while you inoculate your tank because the nitrobacs are waterborne at that moment. You need to allow them to colonize first.
Ed

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:41 pm 
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I suspect that UVs mounted on the main filter return, do not work at their optimum unless they are very long. Slowing the flow through the UV seems to make it more efficient. I have had the best results by diverting a part of the flow through the UV, thereby giving the water a longer exposure to the radiation. I notice that the commercial systems use very long tubes. Perhaps efficiency is more a matter of keeping the glass clean, (I hate taking these things apart to clean them, I have lost count of the glasses that I have broken!). For my peace of mind a slower flow does a better job. I think that what I am trying to say is, it is my suspicion that dwell time of the water in the radiation is more important than wattage.


Last edited by Phill Austen on Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:54 pm 
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Phill Austen wrote:
I suspect that UVs mounted on the main filter return, do not work at their optimum unless they are very long. Slowing the flow through the UV seems to make it more efficient. I have had the best results by diverting a part of the flow through the UV thereby giving the water a longer exposure to the radiation. I notice that the commercial systems use very long tubes. Perhaps efficiency is more a matter of keeping the glass clean, (I hate taking these things apart to clean them, I have lost count of the glasses that I have broken!). For my peace of mind a slower flow does a better job. I think that what I am trying to say is, it is my suspicion that dwell time of the water in the radiation is more important than wattage.

Totally agree, the slower, the better.
Ed

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:42 pm 
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A few qestions made by Ken.

About the UV... ...say 18 watts or so may have a negative bering on the bacteria needed for cycling.

A properly rated and running UV unit SHOULD kill all waterborne bacteria, virus, fungi, algae and all other microbial pathogen. Including nitrifying bacteria inoculants. This said, you MUST turn off your UV while inoculating your tank and for a prudential time after until the bacteria take hold and begin to colonize the biomedia in your filters and the tank substrate, sand, glass, ornaments, intake and output pipes, etc.
Once the bacteria have begun to colonize the substrates, the UV light cannot affect it, as in ONLY affects the water and its biological and chemical contents that flows through the UV Unit.


...Any truth to that...should I go with the 9watt turbothrust which allows lots of dwell time...or a higher (18watts)...

The less wattage, the slower you need to circulate the water through it. There are tables that deal with the dwell time for the different levels of treatment, be it clarification or sterilization... I am pretty sure we have a link or even a good thread on this in which Chris (twotankadmin), threw some good calculations and we discussed this in depth a couple of years ago. I'll summarize my POV, you can't overkill the water by means of a stronger UV unit (maybe your pocket!). I have a 36W Jebo running on a Magnum 350 on my 280G tank. The system has a 55G sump filled with biomedia.

Is there a risk of destroying the bioload?

That is just what you want... to kill all the "harmful" microbioload (microbiological load: bacteria, virus, fungi, algae, all waterborne pathogen microbes.). Consider that most microbes also use up oxygen. Kill and eliminate the microbioload and you will have a higher d.o. level. And again, the nitrifying bacteria that have colonized your biomedia and substrates, will not be affected because they are not exposed to the UV light.

[b]How strong a powerhead for the UV and how strong for setting up a “reeflikeâ€

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 Post subject: re: UV pump?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 9:29 am 
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Thanks for all of that great info...I am not planning to run the UV (probably 18 waTT) off of the main filter tube (330 gal/hr)...so I'll need a pump that fits on the UV unit...for my 90 gal tank,...How many gallons per hour should I look for in this unit...just for the UV?

Now, I (thinking about it) I could attach it to the main line...since the killing of pathogens takes place in the water and not on what's in the filter. Its been a while since I have dealt with UV altogether...so pleas address all of the questlins:1. UV Power. 2. seperate UV line with small pump (?) or3. attach UV unit to main 330gph filter line...

Thanks for all of your patience...I am an old guy and I'm trying to get this right....Ken :?


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:05 am 
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Your UV unit rigged up in line with the main filter will slow down your filter's output. This would be no big deal if you have a relatively strong pump in your filter. In your case, a 330gph output is just under but still good, for you 90G. Manufacturers seem to have different standards when advertising their products, so when Mercedes...oops... I mean Eheim... says a certain model of theirs will adequately filter an aquarium of up to x gallons, you need to understand what they are saying... that is, under what conditions they are assessing the performance of their equipment. We also should consider the species involved, their natural requirements and water parameter tolerances. Considering size, power and even configuration, a good filter for goldfish, could be a bad filter for discus.
Since P.altum are on the higher end of demanding species, they come from a slightly to moderately swift water habitat with a high d.o. and low pH, the 4X1 rule (4 turnarounds per 1 hour) is applicable (I treat them as I would a reef species, and a bit more).
But once you rig up your UV in line on your filter, plus elevation (output vertical distance from head), the 330gph could turn into 150-200gph, i.e.
For this reason, I would run the UV independently on its own powerhead.
As to what powerhead gph you should choose... depends on not only wattage but the internal barrel configuration (how the water moves inside the UV barrel or cylinder, over or around the quartz sleeve containing the UV bulb). Spiraling cylinders provide much more exposure than straight cylinders. If you use a spiral cylindered 18w, a 300gph powerhead will do a nice job, if it were a straight cylinder, no more than 200gph. It all comes down to exposure time.
Ed

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:50 am 
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I'm rolling!...now for the in-line heater...(if I should have one)...will that slow down the gph output as well?...I was thinking of 1 inline and 1 stick heater in the corner...ken


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:23 pm 
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never used an inline heater... have no opinion.

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